So basically, no classic Alpha Flight characters.Originally Posted by Flightpath07
No thanks.
(Don't take this too seriously. I woul read it, but there's just been too many iterarions out there without the characters we all fell in love with...Like the past volumes, I would be constantly hoping/wondering when an old friend would be showing up...)
Last edited by Ahab; 04-25-2010 at 11:39 AM.
Flightpath - you're right, of course. There's no reason a bad-ass has to have little or no characterisation. I wasn't thinking (that sounds sarcastic, but it isn't - I really wasn't thinking).
That said, it still sounds to me like the point of what you're saying is to have bad-ass characters - and that rarely translates to characterisation; it's usually done to be cool, rather than good. Think Poochie.
A good creative team, of course, could make it good.
Even then, though, it wouldn't be characterisation I'd enjoy. The characters I enjoy reading about are ones I relate to - and that isn't characters who are always trying to be bad-ass. Even if they're well-written. I hate it when the 'heroes' in my fiction are nasty people, which you're saying you want. I've never liked that in anything I've read or watched.
Bad-ass characters can be enjoyable, of course (Angel springs to mind), but not my preference. Alpha Flight has never been about that, and something called Alpha Flight that was about being bad-ass would frustrate me.
As to losing all the time? If they're going up against heroes, heroes with their own books, they would either have to lose most or all of the time (because they're guesting in other people's books, and everybody's the best in their own books), or be seen taking out somebody else's favourite team. Then they'll be those nasty people who <fanboy>'unrealistically took out my team when my team is much better. I hope somebody got fired for that blunder!'. </fanboy>* Either way, they won't win.
They'd have to treat the other teams they meet with respect - it's one of those things you have to give it if you want to get it - and the team you're describing wouldn't do that. Other teams' fans wouldn't respect them for that, and I wouldn't respect them for that.
Like Ahab, I'd not be interested in this team that has no classic characters - it'd the first comic with that title that didn't even have a version of Sasquatch in #1. (Didn't you say before you did want Talisman?)
The team you've put together has nobody I could relate to (maybe Windshear). A book which is about being tough and cool and...
I'd read it, of course; it's called Alpha Flight and I'd feel duty-bound, but it'd be so not Alpha Flight, I'd whine incessantly, and I can't see myself enjoying it.
There's reasons why John Byrne's Alpha Flight is my favourite comic book, and it doesn't sound like a single one of those reasons would be in the title you describe. And I can seriously imagine a lot of comics readers being cynical and saying 'Oh, look, it's little Alpha Flight, that team that was such a joke, trying to be bad-ass'.
Who digs a square hole? Only the grave digger.
* Yeah, as if I can turn off my fanboy mode...
- Le Messor
"Great, now I'm gonna be stuck with serious thoughts all day."
~ Cordelia
Last edited by Le Messor; 04-25-2010 at 06:23 PM.
Hello There. Glad to see the site back up! Thought I'd stop lurking and join the other AF die-hards in the world.
I would LOVE to see an Alpha Flight title on the shelves, but it would be a miracle, I think. If it was up to me I'd call it something other than Alpha Flight in the beginning. That sounds preposterous, but I think if you brought Talisman, Sasquatch, Jeffries together, and then added Marrina (back from the supposed dead), Snowbird and Wolverine in subsequent story arcs, you'd have something with good traction. Wolvie's alittle overused, and often more a marketing angle, but he truly does fit with that group of friends... at least for couple of adventures.
Add a few new members to boost the dynamic: Beta Ray Bill is a fav of mine (not to mention a true MU powerhouse). Another character I'd campaign hard for is a woman named Linnea. She's been in one comic book, Avengers 212 way, way back in the 80's, and she could be a hidden gem, both for her abilities and personality.
Lifelong friends coming together, dealing with the grief and survivor's guilt, reaffirming their desire to guard their home from evil forces, would be my angle in resurrecting AF. Then, I'd have the Canadian Government decide to create "Alpha Flight", with 5 or 6 completely new (and hopefully compelling characters). I would have Liz and crew actually LIKE the Alphans, with Walt and Madi doing some consulting work. Then you could have crossovers, but the two teams would have different feels and different M.O.s.
One of the problems Alpha Flight has had is it's always been "that Canadian Team". The World Tour didn't even come close to changing that, in fact, in my opinion, it made it worse. I'd have them just simply BE a powerful group of heroes and I'd establish that by having adventures offworld (in space and in other dimensions)... and I'd have them win... alot.
The Avengers have operated out of NYC but they don't have such a confined impression. Any relaunch of AF, or spinoffs, should follow that model, as far as I'm concerned.
In any case, thanks for letting me ramble!
AK
I truthfully don't see a problem with Alpha Flight being "That Canadian team"...I think only Marvel editorial has that prejudice, fans don't seem to care as long as the stories and art are good. Do comic-readers get hung up on the fact that most of the Excalibur team is British? Do fans get bent out of shape by the Winter Guard being from Russia or do they just enjoy seeing them make an appearance now and then?
I don't get why Marvel sees Alpha Flight being "That Canadian team" as such a series-killer...It's Marvel itself whom is to blame for every volumes' failure or cancellation. Why the constant need to reinvent the wheel?
Dana
ALPHA FLIGHT IS RESURRECTED, LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!
If we're talking of rebuilding Alpha Flight from the ground up, IMHO it won't work without a few familiar faces (original/original-ish surviving members, Like Sassy, Talisman, Snowbird, Aurora and/or Northstar)...They don't all have to be used as active team members, either (Elizabeth, Narya, Madison, etc...One or more could be possibly only be reserve members, etc.)...
There is also a wealth of other Canadian/Canadian-ish characters introduced in various volumes of AF (including the now Canadian Beta Ray Bill) and in other Marvel books that could be mined for membership or guest appearances....
There could always be another Nemesis (although, maybe not right now with a Marvel series titled that)
Deadpool (yeah, I know...Nobody wants him on their team...LOL!)
Albert (genius Wolverine robot) and Elsie Dee (who were dwelling in Canada for quite a while)
X-23 (sort-of Canadian, by way of her clone-daddy?)
Jack Frost (sort of dwelling in Canada, but not by his choice...Unless of course, he really was born in the Canadian arctic)
Maverick (not Canadian, but spent a lot of time there as a member of the Weapon X program and visited during Wolverine's and his own series)
Night Raven (Canadian vigilante, may be dead?)
Weapon: P.R.I.M.E. (even though, I hate them...Bleh)
Even some of the most obscure...
The Living Totem (Doc Samsom mini)
Lynx (intro-ed in Marvel Comics Presents, volume 1/1983)
Avery Connor (Elektra and Wolverine: The Redeemer mini)
Etc...
Etc...
Last edited by cmdrkoenig67; 05-02-2010 at 05:13 AM.
ALPHA FLIGHT IS RESURRECTED, LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!
Dana: "I don't get why Marvel sees Alpha Flight being "That Canadian team" as such a series-killer...It's Marvel itself whom is to blame for every volumes' failure or cancellation. Why the constant need to reinvent the wheel?"
Well, it's not fair, but Alpha Flight has the stigma of Box Office Poison. Not to us, but to casual Marvel Universe readers. In my opinion, the first step in getting it back up and running is recognizing that.
How is it Marvel's fault, when volume 1 lasted 130+ issues counting Annuals/Specials, and the title was then relaunched 2 more times?
Compare AF to the Avengers. Some of the worst comics I've ever read have been certain Avengers arcs... the writing was flat, the art was bland, the characters weren't interesting. But the Avengers don't have that "flop" stigma because it's also produced, by far, some of the best work I've ever seen (same pattern with the X-Men and Fantastic Four). Alpha Flight has had both ends of the spectrum, as well, but it IS seen more negatively. Why? I think it's because it's made ITSELF that sad sack underdog. "We're C-League but we're lovable because we have a unique niche, being 'that Canadian team'. "
The Avengers market themselves as "Earth's Mightiest Heroes", and don't think twice about going toe to toe with Galactus. Alpha Flight, on the otherhand, always seemed relieved just being mentioned by the MU upperclassmen.
So, if Alpha Flight is EVER going to resurface, it has to completely ignore certain elements in order to erase the stigma. As a fan, realize that you have to make compromises. Let the wheel be reinvented, otherwise, keep lamenting, year after year, that Alpha Flight is dead.
Regards,
AK
Dana: "I truthfully don't see a problem with Alpha Flight being "That Canadian team"...I think only Marvel editorial has that prejudice, fans don't seem to care as long as the stories and art are good. Do comic-readers get hung up on the fact that most of the Excalibur team is British? Do fans get bent out of shape by the Winter Guard being from Russia or do they just enjoy seeing them make an appearance now and then?"
I think the problem with being "that Canadian team" is they seemed to have CONFINED themselves to that corner. If done right, they'd be more diverse and wide reaching in their setting, story to story. If they have to go to JUPITER to stop a threat to Earth then off they go.
We can have the best of both worlds. Were they to establish themselves as Canadian based yet far ranging, then the casual reader might be more open-minded... while at the same time the characters of the Marvel Universe would know that to venture into Canada puts them on well guarded turf. Because, as far as I'm concerned, it's not how strictly the enforcers stay in their neighborhood that worries me, it's being caught there when they get back from whatever butt-stomping they've done elsewhere.
AK
Dana: "If we're talking of rebuilding Alpha Flight from the ground up, IMHO it won't work without a few familiar faces (original/original-ish surviving members, Like Sassy, Talisman, Snowbird, Aurora and/or Northstar)...They don't all have to be used as active team members, either (Elizabeth, Narya, Madison, etc...One or more could be possibly only be reserve members, etc.)..."
I agree. There are a few characters I'd steer clear of, but a team with Talisman as it's leader, surrounded by Sasquatch, Jeffries, Snowbird, Marrina (not dead), Northstar and Aurora all making appearances is one I'd like to see.
The reason I put Elizabeth at the center of the team is, she gives them a non Department H starting point. Based on Sarcee land, her commune with the spirits gives her the needed intel on threats arising throughout the territories they're defending. Coupled with Walt and Jeffires as scientific thinkers & engineers they're even more open to recognizing trouble as it rears it's head.
As their antagonists I'd stay away from the Master, the Great Beasts, the Plodex, Department H... at least until the wheel has been properly reinvented and casual readers forget that they're not supposed to respect "Alpha Flight". Create some new nasties who actually are threats, and sprinkle in established powerful characters who then get stung by this new group of heroes.
Blasphemously Yours,
AK
It would and should have a few familiar faces, but it is SO easy to come up with workable concepts:
- AF being the team that does what needs to be done, such as destroying WMDs even in SHIELD's control, destroying Pandora's Box before it's opened. The good guys everyone treats as bad guys
- young adults who see the need for AF and have the ability to step in but don't, then one day some 'real' heroes overstep their bounds and death results. The three see what they must do and restart AF, with one as Guardian, the dead one Nemesis, one a Windshear-based weapon costume, and Sasquatch et al to guide them
- an alternate universe team that crashes into ours, having to be heroes in our world with no knowledge of the rules here, as their Earth operated on a completely different level, and looked at suspiciously by the Avengers et al because they don't 'act right', not evil or violent but look and act different in how they approach and solve problems
- a group of villains takes over the AF role but are thwarted by Sasquatch et al before they can truly achieve their goals; the Master is back
- Dreamqueen creates and alternate timeline to give her access to our dimension but to do so she recreates AF; new adventures that vary with the old ensue
Exactly how many unique hooks are there, anyway?? Besides the internationalized AF or the AF that works with other teams worldwide, or the team that fights the 'bad' heroes who just kill (Wolverine, Deadpool, that idiot Punisher...).
It ain't that hard.
Keep your stick on the ice.
Live it.
Its been awhile since Ive been on the boards but did ALpha Flight win the poll for which title you want back on the Quesada board?
During volume 1, Alpha went into space on more than one occasion, hopped to other dimensions, even traveled to other countries for diplomatic reasons...I don't see them as being confined to Canada, at all.
ALPHA FLIGHT IS RESURRECTED, LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!
Yes they did, MD.
Dana
ALPHA FLIGHT IS RESURRECTED, LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!
Perhaps I should have more clear, I meant current Marvel of the past 15 or so years...And of course it's their fault...They haven't used the right approach, their most recent screw up was Omega Flight...Marvel execs sabotaged that series before it came out.
Alpha has fought Galactus.
What does one ignore and what does one use? Byrne's drama-ridden, in-fighting, non-team (which seemed to sell the best)? The government-directed (or in the case of volume 2, government-controlled) team? Lobdell's "All New, All Different with bad comedy" approach (All New and All Different hasn't really worked for any team, except the New X-Men relaunch in the Seventies)?
I guess I shall have to keep lamenting their loss, since Marvel keeps not getting it right.
Dana
Last edited by cmdrkoenig67; 05-03-2010 at 11:27 PM.
ALPHA FLIGHT IS RESURRECTED, LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!
I think people have to raise the threat level of the people Alpha FLight fights against. I always believed the Master got more recognition when he fought H4H or the Avengers. Have someting that happens in Alpha Flight affect its southern neighbors. Pink Pearl can only get you so many readers. Some people may not like vol2 but at least they took a chance at going into a level which only us Alpha fans knew existed and they ran with it. Vol3 was a joke and OF was nothing deep.
Marvel have tried to "revamp" AF at least three times by introducing "new" characters in the past with little success.
That is because the core AF fans want the original and best team back together. Most of them are still alive!
Northstar, Aurora, Sasquach, Box, Talisman, Snowbird...
Classic team revamps are selling very well at Marvel because it is what the REAL FANS want, just look at NEW MUTANTS.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
