• A Reason For Alpha Flight

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    Flightpath07
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    Published on 04-23-2010 03:47 PM  Number of Views: 34478  
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    There has been plenty of talk on this site lately (actually, for the last few years) that revolves around various discussions about what reason can we come up with for having an Alpha Flight team again, a reason that would be good enough to (a) cause Marvel to believe it would sell as a series, and (b) make sense in that Marvel seems to feel that previous AFs have lost readers due to something new being needed.

    Many people here have suggested ideas. Some new ideas, some not-so-new.

    Many of us believed that John Byrne had it right, or did it best, when it comes to AF. So, many times suggestions came up in regards to how JB wrote AF in the beginning, how they were a team made up of individuals who did not always get along, and showing that individual stories could be told in a team book.

    There has also been talk about how AF needs to interact with the Marvel U on a regular basis, to attract attention and fans and keep them relevant.

    And most people here agree that one of the things that makes AF Alpha Flight-y is that they are Canadians as opposed to Americans (who seem to have the vast majority of the superheroes).

    Well, here is my idea...

    Take John Byrne's original idea. Modernize it, and you have got an AF that is bold, exciting, and will sell.

    By this, I mean that Alpha Flight should be a group of Canadian superheroes, working for the Canadian government, with two mandates; (a) protection of Canada from super-powered baddies, and (b) to bring in all of the Canadian government employees with super-powers who are working illegally in America. In other words, they have a mandate to bring back to Canada such people as Northstar, Aurora, and Wolverine, at any and all costs.

    This, as you can imagine, means that AF will be a superhero team based in Canada, who, besides fighting bad guys and gals within their own borders, will quite often be throwing-down with recognizable superheroes and super-teams in the US of A. They may be good guys, but when they get a sniff of one of their own who have left to fight evil in the US, they spring into cross-border-action and try their damnest to capture and retrieve said persons.

    Welcome to a great many great battles with superheroes! Welcome to a great many guest appearances in other titles! Welcome to sales!

    Welcome back, Alpha Flight?
    This article was originally published in forum thread: A Reason For Alpha Flight started by Flightpath07 View original post
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    Comments 109 Comments
    1. Flightpath07's Avatar
      Flightpath07 - 08-13-2010
      Quote Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67 View Post
      If loving the characters is a prerequisite for doing the book, then there's the first problem....John Byrne does not love Alpha Flight.
      But we love him.

      Does this mean he is cheating on us?
    1. Le Messor's Avatar
      Le Messor - 08-14-2010
      Quote Originally Posted by Flightpath07 View Post
      But we love him.
      Does this mean he is cheating on us?
      I knew it! I saw him with a blue hair on his shoulder!

      - Le Messor
      "He who dies with the most toys is still dead."
    1. Duane V's Avatar
      Duane V - 08-15-2010
      I think Byrne would jump at the chance to handle some Marvel characters again. He wasn't happy about his X-Men series being cancelled. He was instrumental in the creation of Alpha Flight; I think he'd like to retool the series. Marvel would have to want to put up with his Ego, though...I will always be a Byrne Victim. I just can't help it. He and George Perez will always be my favorite artists. It's been a while since Brne has had a chance to write Marvel characters. I'd bet he's got some good ideas.
    1. cmdrkoenig67's Avatar
      cmdrkoenig67 - 08-15-2010
      John Byrne recently answered a query by one of the folks over at his message board...The person asked (paraphrased)..."If you had the chance to work at Marvel and continue the X-Men: Hidden Years series (and the current regime was no longer an issue), would you do it?" He answered (also paraphrased) "In a heartbeat."

      So Mr Byrne isn't totally adverse to working at Marvel, but he may never work there as long as people like Joe Quesada are running the place.

      Dana
    1. cmdrkoenig67's Avatar
      cmdrkoenig67 - 08-15-2010
      I'd really love to see John do another Alpha Flight series, but I highly doubt it will ever happen (he just doesn't think they are/were good enough to stand beside the likes of the Avengers, the FF, Thor, Captain America, etc...Since Alpha wasn't created by Lee and Kirby).

      Wolverine       wasn't created by Lee and Kirby either, yet look how big of a star he is....John Byrne is one of the people who helped to make him the success he is today (he saved Logan from being booted from the X-Men, when Claremont and Cockrum wanted to be rid of him)...The same could be said of Deadpool, who was created by Fabian Nicieza and Rob Liefeld (a man who for the most part, is reviled because of his questionable art talent), yet Deadpool (another Canadian character, who'd a thunk it?) is a big star at Marvel, as well.

      It's really unfortunate that John doesn't see the value in his own work (that we do) and that his creations have stood right there, shoulder to shoulder with some of the greats...Alpha Flight are worthy heroes and wonderfully faceted characters (mostly thanks to him)....It's also unfortunate...No, actually...It's a disgrace that Marvel execs don't care about them either.

      Dana
    1. Flightpath07's Avatar
      Flightpath07 - 08-15-2010
      Well put, Dana, as per usual.
    1. Duane V's Avatar
      Duane V - 08-16-2010
      I Definitely agree with Dana. Quesada should extend an olive branch to Byrne. I haven't heard anything indicating a major rift between Byrne and the current Marvel staff. I mean other than the fact that his X - title was cancelled. Just read an interview with Byrne where he said part of his desire to make the characters more interesting was his decision to make Northstar gay after the fact. Aurora's multiple personalities make her interesting, alot could be done with that, plus Narya's (wasn't she named after one of Gandalf's three rings?)link to mythic Canadian lore..There's alot here to work with, but of course we think so or we wouldn't be here...
    1. cmdrkoenig67's Avatar
      cmdrkoenig67 - 08-16-2010
      Quote Originally Posted by Duane V View Post
      I Definitely agree with Dana. Quesada should extend an olive branch to Byrne. I haven't heard anything indicating a major rift between Byrne and the current Marvel staff. I mean other than the fact that his X - title was cancelled. Just read an interview with Byrne where he said part of his desire to make the characters more interesting was his decision to make Northstar gay after the fact. Aurora's multiple personalities make her interesting, alot could be done with that, plus Narya's (wasn't she named after one of Gandalf's three rings?)link to mythic Canadian lore..There's alot here to work with, but of course we think so or we wouldn't be here...
      I don't know if that's where Mr Byrne got Snowbird's name from, but one of the rings is called Narya (the ring of fire).

      Dana
    1. Le Messor's Avatar
      Le Messor - 08-16-2010
      Quote Originally Posted by Duane V View Post
      Narya's (wasn't she named after one of Gandalf's three rings?)
      Quote Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67 View Post
      I don't know if that's where Mr Byrne got Snowbird's name from, but one of the rings is called Narya (the ring of fire).
      Because I like to quibble (actually, I just like to say quibble. "Quibble, quibble, quibble."), it was one of the elvish rings; Gandalf wore one (Narya, I think), but not the other two.

      - LM
      "He who is determined not to be satisfied with anything short of perfection will never do anything to please himself or others."
      ~ William Hazlitt
    1. cmdrkoenig67's Avatar
      cmdrkoenig67 - 08-18-2010
      I'm including Mr Brevoort (along with JoeQ) in my "current regime" comment...He has bad-mouthed John Byrne in at least one article...I think it's safe to say there is more than one person at Marvel that John may have issues with.

      Dana
    1. kozzi24's Avatar
      kozzi24 - 08-23-2010
      In this case I don't blame Byrne. They cancelled "Hidden Years" because the "past-continuity" would "confuse" readers, then a few years later did those "First Class" projects. IMHO, Hidden Years was the best X-book on the market at the time.

      Northsdtar gay "after the fact" is after one appearance where Byrne used him, the first appearance of the team. The team's second appearance by Byrne did not have Sasquatch or the twins, and the hints were pretty clear in AF#1, at least in hindsight.
    1. cmdrkoenig67's Avatar
      cmdrkoenig67 - 08-23-2010
      I enjoyed Hidden Years too...Fun, all ages reading enjoyment that gave us a look into those years that the X-Men were guest-starring in other books, but had no series of their own.

      The reason stated to the public may have been reader confusion, but John Byrne has said several times JoeQ had told him the reason for cancellation was that there were too many X-titles...Waiting for collective laughter from fellow forum members. Neither reason really makes any sense, considering Marvel now has probably double the X-titles they had then and as for reader confusion...Marvel puts out several alternate universe series, like the Ultimate line of comics, Marvel Adventures or even the What If and Universe X series of the past, etc...

      Dana
    1. Le Messor's Avatar
      Le Messor - 08-23-2010
      Quote Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67 View Post
      the reason for cancellation was that there were too many X-titles...Waiting for collective laughter from fellow forum members.
      Ha!
      sorry, mine's pretty bitter.

      - LM
      "He who lives without folly is less wise than he believes."
    1. MistressMerr's Avatar
      MistressMerr - 08-23-2010
      Quote Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67 View Post
      I enjoyed Hidden Years too...Fun, all ages reading enjoyment that gave us a look into those years that the X-Men were guest-starring in other books, but had no series of their own.

      The reason stated to the public may have been reader confusion, but John Byrne has said several times JoeQ had told him the reason for cancellation was that there were too many X-titles...Waiting for collective laughter from fellow forum members. Neither reason really makes any sense, considering Marvel now has probably double the X-titles they had then and as for reader confusion...Marvel puts out several alternate universe series, like the Ultimate line of comics, Marvel Adventures or even the What If and Universe X series of the past, etc...

      Dana
      Yeah, it's ridiculous how many people/books/stories Quesada threw under the bus with all his BIG CHANGES when he took over, only to go back on pretty much all of them only a couple years later.
    1. Mokole's Avatar
      Mokole - 08-23-2010
      Well, he always pushes his pet characters (She-Hulk, Spider-Girl for example) regardless of how much money they lose on those characters. Nobody cares about She-Hulk yet he pushed that character year after year of underselling by thousands of issues. No different than Bendis always using that one spider-woman and jewel. I bet both will argue that they weren't pushing personal favorites but 'trying to get more female readers'. As if She-Hulk brought in anything.
    1. cmdrkoenig67's Avatar
      cmdrkoenig67 - 08-23-2010
      Quote Originally Posted by MistressMerr View Post
      Yeah, it's ridiculous how many people/books/stories Quesada threw under the bus with all his BIG CHANGES when he took over, only to go back on pretty much all of them only a couple years later.
      Yep...Does anybody recall him saying "the dead will stay dead" thing a few years back, then we got back Colossus (I forget if anybody else came back around that time period) only a short time later. Now everybody is coming back...Whether it be as highly improbable skrull-replaced heroes, Techno-zombie mutants or the force-resurrection of heaven knows how many more characters during the Chaos Wars. Oy!

      Dana
    1. DIGGER's Avatar
      DIGGER - 08-25-2010
      The dead will only stay dead if sales are good. If they aren't THEN you have the miraculous resurrections, the clones, the frozen in ice/space/cryogenic chamber. I can still recall the saying that Bucky is dead and will stay dead...guess we all know how that turned out. Everything old is new again. In comics. On television. At the movies.

      DIGGER
    1. Uncle Rich's Avatar
      Uncle Rich - 08-25-2010
      I have a lot of catching up to do. I haven't followed Alpha Flight since around the mid 80's.

      What I do know is that AF went downhill fast when Mac got killed off in #12. I'm wondering how many times this series has been rebooted or how many times Mac (and others) have been resurrected.

      I'm not sure who Mokole is blaming for she-hulk getting too much exposure, but it was that same way back in the 80's. A mediocre character getting too much play. I actually have a copy of the original She-hulk #1 (1980) but I'm not sure it's worth more than use as a coaster.
    1. kozzi24's Avatar
      kozzi24 - 08-25-2010
      Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Rich View Post
      I have a lot of catching up to do. I haven't followed Alpha Flight since around the mid 80's.

      What I do know is that AF went downhill fast when Mac got killed off in #12. I'm wondering how many times this series has been rebooted or how many times Mac (and others) have been resurrected.
      Mac was ressurected four times, one time a fake, once a temporary thing that lasted about 12 issues, then at the close of Volume 1, I guess just so he would be around.
      Volume 1 ended at #130 but was followed by a Northstar Mini that was OK.
      Volume 2 saw the fourth Mac resurrection. It was also OK, but focused on too few "recognizable" Alphas and was very consp[iracy-theory drive, so did not much feel like Alpha Flight. It ran for 20 issues, IIRC.
      Volume 3 would be a waste of your time and money. This site did support it, and those of us who gave timely voice "this sucks" were thoroughly spanked but have since made prodigal returns.
      "Volume 4" was OMEGA Flight, and is well worth your time and money and should still be fairly readily available in Trade.
      Guardian was killed off panel in New Avengers #16, so if he returns in the upcoming one-shot, this will be resurrection #5.
    1. Ben's Avatar
      Ben - 08-25-2010
      Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Rich View Post
      I have a lot of catching up to do. I haven't followed Alpha Flight since around the mid 80's.

      What I do know is that AF went downhill fast when Mac got killed off in #12. I'm wondering how many times this series has been rebooted or how many times Mac (and others) have been resurrected.
      The Alphanex is a good way to start catching up on characters. Also, ask lots of questions here

      As for different series:
      Alpha Flight Volume 1 - 130 Issues - Had it's ups and downs, but IMO, it's worth picking them up on Ebay for a full read through.
      Alpha Flight Volume 2 - 18 Issues - I liked this series, but it had it's flaws for long term sustainability. It was mysterious and x-files ish
      Alpha Flight Volume 3 - 12 Issues - Treated like a joke by Lobdell, most fans now pretend it didn't happen. I tried to stay positive at the time for the sake of the title, but now I pretend it was an alternate reality.
      Omega Flight - 5 issues - I really enjoyed this series, and was very disappointed that it was downgraded to a mini series before it launched

      Now we are getting the one shot...notice how the increments are decreasing? now we nowhere to go but up! Check out the issue Summaries on the main site for a brief run-down on each issue. So far we are still missing Omega Flight and most of vol. 3, but the first two volumes are complete.
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