I don't think anyone's ever said she was a good leader.
Just a better one than Mac.
I don't think anyone's ever said she was a good leader.
Just a better one than Mac.
This...
and...Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan
... this!
Pure. Comedy. GOLD.
We saw him in Uncanny X-Men #109 (I believe it was?), and he made some mistakes (shot Colossus, reflected and struck Storm, I believe it was). But nothing too serious.
That's just it - I don't even see her as a better leader than Mac. While we didn't get to see Mac lead Alpha Flight much - we saw him with Uncanny X-Men #120 - 121, and granted - he did some questionable action, but he was following the commands of his country to bring Wolverine back.
We see them again, in Uncanny X-Men #139 (I believe?) through 140 against the Wendigo, and he actually does a solid job here (from what I remember).
Then we see him in Alpha Flight #1, against Tundra, and he's rocking it as a leader. We see it again, off an on through the 12 issues, before he sacrifices himself.
Heather puts on the suit in Alpha Flight #32.
Heather kills Snowbird in Alpha Flight #44.
That's 13 issues, before she's a better leader, in killing a member.
Mac, who we can say had the 2 issues in UXM (120/121), 139 & 140, and we shall say about 6 of the issues of the original volume before his demise - means he was a "leader" for 10 issues, without killing a single member.
Other than himself, making the ultimate sacrifice.
So I am not seeing how Heather was even a better leader than Mac.
I think, as Mik stated earlier it's more just to do with the length of time over the course of the first volume that they're in charge, compared.
Mac managed to get the team shut down after 2 missions, and as mentioned earlier had lots of sinister activities retconned into his past.
Heather managed to do a lot more with the team, on a worldwide scale, and managed to carry on after Mac's 'death'.
Last edited by Phil; 06-23-2014 at 08:20 PM.
Um, from where I am reading, no, no she is NOT a better leader than Mac was.
She's been one longer (as far as reading, I mean, I have no real idea how long she's been a leader vs. Mac at this point), but NOT a better one.
Sorry, she's killed people, and caused some members to leave.
Maybe she becomes a better one, and I just have to get to that point in my reading, but as of right now? No. No way.
And if you all are going to hijack my thread, then you'd better consider me a part of your AlphaFlight.net family.
I mean it!
How is it hijacking?And if you all are going to hijack my thread, then you'd better consider me a part of your AlphaFlight.net family.
I mean it!
*sigh*How is it hijacking?
Tawmis. You KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
It'snotaboutME.
You already remind me of one of my brothers.
I can't tell if that's good or bad!
>
And if it had been brought up more than about once in the entire run, it might've even helped!
Yes, you're right... no out-of-characterness there!
I know, right?
~ LM
It's neither. And either.I can't tell if that's good or bad!
And as for the rest, I was only teasing.
I'd add the X-Men/Alpha Flight 2-parter to that, which I believe takes place between the early issues of Alpha Flight.We saw him in Uncanny X-Men #109 (I believe it was?), and he made some mistakes (shot Colossus, reflected and struck Storm, I believe it was). But nothing too serious.
That's just it - I don't even see her as a better leader than Mac. While we didn't get to see Mac lead Alpha Flight much - we saw him with Uncanny X-Men #120 - 121, and granted - he did some questionable action, but he was following the commands of his country to bring Wolverine back.
We see them again, in Uncanny X-Men #139 (I believe?) through 140 against the Wendigo, and he actually does a solid job here (from what I remember).
Then we see him in Alpha Flight #1, against Tundra, and he's rocking it as a leader. We see it again, off an on through the 12 issues, before he sacrifices himself.
Heather puts on the suit in Alpha Flight #32.
Heather kills Snowbird in Alpha Flight #44.
That's 13 issues, before she's a better leader, in killing a member.
Mac, who we can say had the 2 issues in UXM (120/121), 139 & 140, and we shall say about 6 of the issues of the original volume before his demise - means he was a "leader" for 10 issues, without killing a single member.
Other than himself, making the ultimate sacrifice.
So I am not seeing how Heather was even a better leader than Mac.
The mistake of reflecting a shot off Colossus isn't even a leadership thing. It's a lack of familiarity with his suit. He wasn't leading anybody.
Meanwhile, Heather felt like she was on a rampage. "All right, who's next? Bochs? C'mere, curly!"
By the time she'd had 20 or so issues to herself, she was down to two other full-fledged members, who must have been getting a little nervous by this point.
Well I didn't count the UXM #109 in my total for Mac's leadership, since it was just him. Was just showing his first appearance, that yes, he made a slight mistake. But certainly didn't kill anyone. Unlike Heather, who didn't make a mistake, and rather than give Snowbird a chance to fight for her soul - decided to put a plasma blast through her back and body.
I mean, I get why it was happening. I sincerely believe that Bill had every intention of replacing the original Alpha Flight members, with the new ones he was creating, such as Purple Girl, Manikin, etc. I believe that was his end goal - was to write from a clean sheet of characters, which I think he does better with (for example ROM and MICRONAUTS - even though, by the time both were into the long run - got very strange and difficult to read as well).
I just don't understand how people think Heather was a better leader. Granted, she eventually does some good stuff (as noted, with the World Tour thing). But that doesn't remove what she did previous to that, to her own team mates.
Although to be fair, as much as I love Snowbird (which is why Heather's choice offends me so much, LOL) - Snowbird did sort of rip out Water's heart... So...
Okay, I've taken my replies to the Mac/Heather thing over to http://alphaflight.net/showthread.ph...r-s-Leadership as it's starting to reach WAY beyond the point that Crackity is up to in the series, and because it's kinda taking away focus.
Feel free to carry on there, but be warned: It will cover anything published up till Amazing X-Men #8.
I am never going to catch up. I'm still on volume 1 and will be for a long time.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote