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Thread: The Superhero Book

  1. #16

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    I think it was because he killed one character and that that was his plan from #1.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crackity Jones View Post
    Or maybe it's because when he did it, it was to fit a story, or a story to fit the death? It was done decently when Byrne did it?
    I think it's all your answers, but mostly that last one. He did it WELL. And often. Mantlo did it way too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    I think it was because he killed one character and that that was his plan from #1.
    Some people count Walt, too, which would double your count.

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  5. #20
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    Default Constantly killing characters is not funny

    Quote Originally Posted by Crackity Jones View Post
    It always makes me wonder why Byrne fans (including myself!) are okay with the fact that he killed off characters.
    Maybe because they were his own? Maybe because when he did it, it wasn't to replace them with craptastic, soulless characters that we were forced into reading/dealing with?
    Or maybe it's because when he did it, it was to fit a story, or a story to fit the death? It was done decently when Byrne did it?

    I just am not sure.
    I was trying to wait before writing something like "When are the powers-that-be @ MARVEL going to realize that killing Alpha Flight characters isn't funny, anymore...if ever it was?", but the indiscriminate deaths that have happened (and apparently are still happening) make it difficult not to chime in. One writer used his storytelling abilities to tell stories that resulted in death: AF# 12 and AF #s 23 & 24; another writer was allowed to get rid of the originals in ways that really have (little-to-) no plausibility [Shaman & Talisman, AF# 38], direction [Michael and Elizabeth plus Snowbird (and her baby), Roger Bochs, and Puck], or logic [Aurora and Northstar].

    Quote Originally Posted by Crackity Jones View Post
    What do we have to do to get Alpha more love????
    Tell me, and I will do it!
    Do I need to tweet some folks?
    Tweet-scream at someone?
    FB someone?
    Start a petition?
    March to Canada?
    March to Marvel?
    Throw things?
    Make threats?
    Beg?
    Buy someone lunch?
    Sell my soul?
    Please, PLEASE, PU-LEASE don't sell your soul...SPOILERS...
    If MARVEL isn't above gutting Talisman*, there really isn't any character from ALPHA FLIGHT that is safe. MARVEL seems intent on continuing to kill off these characters. Why? I don't know. For how long (will they be dead)? I don't know. It doesn't make people happy when they do it, though, yet MARVEL keeps on doing it.

    * from behind, which is cowardly to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    I think it was because he killed one character and that that was his plan from #1.
    Again, one writer pretty much stuck to what he said he was going to do [as outlined in the interview in AMAZING HEROES # 22], and one writer pretty much reneged on just about everything he said he was going to do [as outlined in AMAZING HEROES # 76 and COMICS FEATURE # 42]. Did Alpha Flight sell better on the newstand after the switch, or did it go direct-sell only? Did Alpha Flight become more of a family-oriented team, or was it ripped apart so that "craptastic" characters could replace the originals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crackity Jones View Post
    I count Walter. I was so sad.
    The difference with Walter's death is the team's immediate determination to save his soul, which was unexpected (for me). And that Walter ends up saving Liz, Jean-Paul, and Jeanne-Marie was also appreciated.

    It is difficult to find what redeeming results came out of AF#s 29 through 66; there may be some, but they are few and far between.
    Last edited by Garry/Al-Fan; 07-14-2014 at 12:25 PM.
    Once upon a time, they exploded from the pages of The X-Men. For a moment, they were "Canada's answer to The Avengers."

    They were ALPHA FLIGHT....

    ...once upon a time.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    The difference with Walter's death is the team's immediate determination to save his soul, which was unexpected (for me). And that Walter ends up saving Liz, Jean-Paul, and Jeanne-Marie was also appreciated.
    Yes, I may be the one who brought it up, but I DON'T count Walt's death, at least not as Byrne - because he got better IMMEDIATELY. (The issue after.) Oh, he came back as Box - but he came back.

    ~ Le Messor
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  7. #22

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    I count Walter's death. And I WAS sad, but it was done interestingly, and seemingly with heart. And made for a great story, imo.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    MARVEL seems intent on continuing to kill off these characters. Why? I don't know. It doesn't make people happy when they do it, though, yet MARVEL keeps on doing it.
    No, it seems to make some people happy; some people who work for Marvel.

    Considering that Alpha Flight has had a longer run, and been in more comics, than some of the characters that Marvel keep trying to push onto their readers, AF REALLY deserves more respect than some of the people (note I said "some of") who work at Marvel give them. I know I can't be the only one who wonders if some people sit around at the Marvel offices, joking day after day that if any writers need a character to do something horrible to, why not just grab one of those AF characters; nobody cares about the wacky Canadian characters anyways, eh.
    Support Artists, Not Companies! Creator-owned comics are where the real art is at!

    My new website! http://lifelessordinarywebnovel.com/home.html Follow my super-powered web-novel adventures, "Life Less Ordinary"!

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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flightpath07 View Post
    I know I can't be the only one who wonders if some people sit around at the Marvel offices, joking day after day that if any writers need a character to do something horrible to, why not just grab one of those AF characters; nobody cares about the wacky Canadian characters anyways, eh.
    They may joke like that, I don't know, but I imagine you're only half right.
    I suspect they think 'We need to kill somebody off to prove it's a real threat. Is Guy Fleegman available? No? Let's see... who doesn't have a book right now?'

    Then somebody like Alpha Flight, or Cloak and Dagger, or Power Pack, or whoever gets it.

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  10. #25
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    Default Can't anyone tell a half-way decent story without bumping a character off, anymore?

    Skimmed the Yost/Kyle interview. I get Wendigoes are dangerous---deadly, even, but...

    A death an issue? Really? Please tell me it isn't so.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    Skimmed the Yost/Kyle interview. I get Wendigoes are dangerous---deadly, even, but...

    A death an issue? Really? Please tell me it isn't so.
    Yeah, i miss the day when heroes saved the day, without having to bump people off. I miss the day when skyscrapers (full of people) didn't have to get trashed in every super-fight. I miss the days when villains didn't detonate themselves and kill children.

    I seriously miss those days. i'd rather that was an extreme that we only saw once a decade or so, rather than the norm. At this point, these people stop beign heroes, to me; they're soldiers.

    I want comics the way they used to be.
    Support Artists, Not Companies! Creator-owned comics are where the real art is at!

    My new website! http://lifelessordinarywebnovel.com/home.html Follow my super-powered web-novel adventures, "Life Less Ordinary"!

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    Also 'occasionally' ranting Alpha Flight related stuff at http://canadas-own-the-flight.blogspot.com/

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flightpath07 View Post
    I seriously miss those days. i'd rather that was an extreme that we only saw once a decade or so, rather than the norm. At this point, these people stop being heroes, to me; they're soldiers.
    I miss those days too. But there are some comics about that have such things; New New Warriors seems good that way. Um... uh...
    Nightcrawler.

    I'm out. (of Marvel.)

    ~ Le Messor
    "Nature abhors a hero. For one thing, he violates the law of conservation of energy. For another, how can it be the survival of the fittest when the fittest keeps putting himself in situations where he is most likely to be creamed?"
    ~ Solomon Short

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor View Post
    I miss those days too. But there are some comics about that have such things; New New Warriors seems good that way. Um... uh...
    Nightcrawler.

    I'm out. (of Marvel.)

    ~ Le Messor
    "Nature abhors a hero. For one thing, he violates the law of conservation of energy. For another, how can it be the survival of the fittest when the fittest keeps putting himself in situations where he is most likely to be creamed?"
    ~ Solomon Short
    I find myself feeling like Claremont's Nightcrawler is (so far) lacking...something.
    I cannot exactly pin-point what it is, but it's lacking.
    It all seems surface to me. There doesn't seem to be any meat to it. Rushed and heartless. Maybe it'll get better once Amanda and Margali are out of it. Though, he IS doing a great job (at least in #3, I haven't read #4 yet) in making them into villains.

    At first I thought it was light-hearted and fun. And I haven't read any of Claremont's X-Men other than the ANAD stuff, but Nightcrawler seems...meatless right now.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crackity Jones View Post
    I find myself feeling like Claremont's Nightcrawler is (so far) lacking...something.
    I think I know the feeling. Not about this particular comic - besides Claremont, Nauck's art is just cartoonish enough to bring back the good feelings he gave me with Young Justice, but not so cartoony it detracts from this one.

    BUT, I've read things that hit every beat of what I keep saying I want to read... and still just don't have 'it'.

    ~ Le Messor
    "He has a certain, as the French say, I don't know what."
    ~ Dr Evil

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor View Post
    I think I know the feeling. Not about this particular comic - besides Claremont, Nauck's art is just cartoonish enough to bring back the good feelings he gave me with Young Justice, but not so cartoony it detracts from this one.

    BUT, I've read things that hit every beat of what I keep saying I want to read... and still just don't have 'it'.

    ~ Le Messor
    "He has a certain, as the French say, I don't know what."
    ~ Dr Evil
    Yesssssssss.
    I soooo want this book to be good and to survive. And it's decent enough of a read to keep it in my pull list, but it's barely hanging on.
    And I sooooo much love Nightcrawler.

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