What Exactly is Marvel's Problem?

[Flightpath07]

The title to this thread is a lot like giving a (comic loving) child a loaded gun.

That being said, something concerns me.

For me, it starts with realizing that Marvel has just cancelled Fearless Defenders after 12 issues. At some point, i have to question why it is that well-written comic series by Marvel DON'T SELL enough to keep going.

So, I leave it up to you to discuss here.

My thoughts at this moment: Is it because Marvel does not know how to market a good series? Or is it because Marvel is SO GOOD at marketing a few of their titles, that nobody cares about (or is willing to pay any attention to) anything else?

Because, seriously, in the last few years, I don't have enough fingers (got to stop greasing my chainsaw while it is running!) to count the GREAT Marvel titles that have been discontinued due to poor sales! In my opinion, the talented writers who come up with this stuff, deserve a better fate than what they have been handed of late!

So, what's the scoop, people? Is Marvel too good at marketing, or are they really lousy at it?

btw, in this case, i don't consider the argument of "people can't afford" to buy comics a valid one; simply because, I am poor, in debt, struggling to keep my head above water financially, yet just spent $66.08 at my LCS today. 'Nuff said.

[Phil]

"Well-written" is relative though. You say it's well written, others don't.

The majority of superhero comic readers want what they've had for the last 50 years; a traditional capes and tights fight. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's what sells, no matter what Marvel or DC do.

[Flightpath07]

Then why not drop the pretense?

Why put out new series at all? Just put out limited series of everything that isn't a traditional top-seller. At least then we the reader know that what we are reading is going to end. Do away with the false hope. If the LS sells decently, do another LS a bit later. I could live with that.

[Phil]

Because LS's don't sell as well as ongoings anymore.
People don't tend to buy LS's because they don't think they matter.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

What's the number of issues sold that would cause a title to be cancelled or that a title should try not to go below?

[Chris]

With Marvel, I've noticed it's around the 20,000 sales mark. DC is bit more lenient. Usually it's around 12,000 to 10,000 sales mark for DC. These sales figures are not written in stone since Uncanny X-Force was selling around 32,000 copies in October and got canned. I think sales were dropping too fast with Uncanny X-Force so Marvel decided to end it early. That's my opinion.

[Flightpath07]

Because LS's don't sell as well as ongoings anymore.
People don't tend to buy LS's because they don't think they matter.

So Phil, this again swings the discussion around to what i was asking; isn't this a marketing issue, in one way or another? Either they market their big-selling series too well, thus killing the market for anything but...or they just don't know how to market something that isn't already established.

Why do I say this? Well, if Limited Series don't sell well because people think they don't matter...then doesn't Marvel need to change people's perceptions? Isn't that what a marketing department is for?


As far as this goes...

The majority of superhero comic readers want what they've had for the last 50 years; a traditional capes and tights fight. Nothing more, nothing less.

...IMHO, that ISN'T what the last 50 years has given them. Strictly super-vs-super fights, without much character development, is still a relatively-new development in comics. I grew up in the age where comics, even team comics, spent just as much time showing heroes interacting with each other out of costume, and just as much time showing the home-lives of supers, as they did showing mindless battle scenes. So, I don't think that "capes and tights fights; nothing more, nothing less" are a tradition at all, or at least not a long-standing one.

[Phil]

Fantastic Four #1 - Superheroes in tights fighting a supervillain in a cape.
That's as long-standing as the Marvel Universe as we know it.

I'm not saying that that was all the issue was, but for children at the time that was undoubtedly a highlight of the issue. Those children have now grown up and still read the same comics with the same hero v villain fights.

And again, not saying it applies to everyone; I specifically said the majority.

Established names and titles sell. "Fantastic Four" will outsell "Fearless Defenders" on name alone. Retailers trust the brand, habitual buyers buy it.

I don't want this thread (or any other) to spin off into the cliché that is me disagreeing with everything you put and having to be the only person to defend Marvel on every point so I'll leave my input at that.

[Flightpath07]

Hey, you're allowed to like Marvel if you choose to.

Just like you allow me to basically loathe them.

Its all good.

[Le Messor]

I don't want this thread (or any other) to spin off into the cliché that is me disagreeing with everything you put and having to be the only person to defend Marvel on every point so I'll leave my input at that.

Y'know, Phil, sometimes I feel sorry for you. Trying to be the voice of reason and, well, niceness, with all us bitter cynical types around.
C'mon, guys, let's be more supportive of Phil!

~ LM
"Make new friends but keep the old; one is silver and the other's gold."

[Phil]

Hey, you've all been given plenty of reasons to be cynical. Just from both Marvel and DC.

[Flightpath07]

Hey, you've all been given plenty of reasons to be cynical. Just from both Marvel and DC.

Ah, but this isn't All-StarSuperman.net , so...

[Phil]

It's not FearlessDefenders.net either though.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

My answer to this thread's question would be that some people remember that "fan" is short for "fanatic", and they remember it with derision.

[Le Messor]

I think you're all correct - that if I'm cynical at Marvel more than DC, if I attack Marvel more than DC, it's because I care less about DC's characters. Then again, IMO, Marvel have never done anything as bad as the Nu52. Even their 'equivalent' - Marvel Now! - made things better, not worse (for me, at least).
And, yeah, that is what 'fan' means!
(But we're not (necessarily) Fearless Defenders fans.)

I also don't like answers which say 'the majority want this' (when I think 'this' isn't very good), because it makes me feel hopeless - that there will never be the good comics of my youth again, and there's nothing I can do about it, because a whole lotta people are after things I'm not AS fond of.
Unfortunately, I know very well 'I don't like' and 'It isn't true' mean two very different things.

~ Le Messor
"Male, old enough to know better, wishes correspondence with female not quite that old."