Article: An Alpha Hint Of Sorts...?

[Flightpath07]

But all my opinion and I see why you and others don't like the appearances. I'm not saying they're great and will get a new series for us, I just don't see them as a laughing stock.

i think my definition of "joke" , in this case, would be more along the lines of "handled flippantly or un-heroically" (that last one REALLY should be a word! - stupid spell-check...), "teasing" or "not to be taken seriously", or "a laughingstock".

Of course, it is all semantics, which is nothing to quibble over; in the end, we all colour how we view things through our own emotional filters. You say "Potato", I Say "Hippopotamus" (for my Australian friends, that is like a very large and quiet and docile Tasmanian Devil, I think?). It's all good.

[Phil]

i think my definition of "joke" , in this case, would be more along the lines of "handled flippantly or un-heroically"

That makes sense.

[Le Messor]

See, I don't get the hate for those issues;

Don't mistake my comments for hate.
I just feel that Alpha Flight had a guest appearance for three issues where they pretty much did nothing. I've seen guest characters get a chance to do stuff before; but in this, they spent the entire time unconscious.
(Which, as you say, the She-Hulks did, too.)

If it wasn't really Alpha Flight, then surely that wasn't making a joke of Alpha Flight? Had they put the Americans on 'Alpha'

True-ish.
But Omega was always touted as the Alpha Flight book, and the only one we'd get for a while.

I'm sure they'd have followed up on it had sales warranted it; there are always going to be threads dangling from a cancelled series.

Also true.

I don't see how this is a new personality though.

Not quite what FP said.
He pointed out that it focuses on one aspect of the character, and one only. Basically, it's stereotyping an individual, if such a thing's possible.

I Say "Hippopotamus" (for my Australian friends, that is like a very large and quiet and docile Tasmanian Devil, I think?). It's all good.

I *have* been to Africa. Where I saw Hippopotami frolicking in the wild, with the babboons and tigers.

~ Le Messor
"Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer."

[Phil]

Don't mistake my comments for hate.

Oh, no you specifically, lots of people online had strong feelings about it.
But your points make sense.

But Omega was always touted as the Alpha Flight book, and the only one we'd get for a while.

Which I get sense of something similar soon happening maybe...

Not quite what FP said.

using that to seemingly give him an all-new personality.

That's the part I was focusing on.

I can see the stereotyping angle though, but it's no different to how Hama, Seagle or Aaron have written him, really.

[Le Messor]

But your points make sense.

What is wrong with the world, when I make sense?

Not quite what FP said.

using that to seemingly give him an all-new personality.

That's the part I was focusing on.

Then it IS quite what FP said.

I can see the stereotyping angle though, but it's no different to how Hama, Seagle or Aaron have written him, really.

I never liked Seagle's writing. Dunno 'bout the others.

~ Le Messor
"Katz' Law: Man and nations will act rationally when all other possibilities have been exhausted."

[Legerd]

It was actually the opposite; people saw AF as a joke after Vol.3 and it was Bendis killing them that brought them back in the public eye and had long-term X-fans who hadn't touched Vol.3 rekindling their love for the team and expressing anger at the team being killed off which helped contribute to the decent sales that Omega Flight had.

That's one way of looking at it. Personally, I saw a lot of people who said good riddance, or didn't care as they knew next to nothing about the team and their off panel deaths just gave the impression they were useless characters. The point I'm always trying to make is, if the writers present any character in a negative light that's how readers (especially new ones) are going to see them.

But how can they be expected to do that for free? No writer is going to spend a couple of years working on a book for no payment just in the hope that the team will gain fans/respect down the line.

Like Flightpath said, what I meant was the team should be given guest spots, and positive mentions for a couple of years so newer readers can get to know and like them. Then, once the groundwork had been laid down, Marvel could attempt a new series. Anything else and it would seem like they were being shoehorned in even though they've been around for so long. Had Marvel spent more time before Vol. 4 giving them guest spots, and building up their popularity then they would have stood a better chance. Granted they did advertise the book, and they did put a top-notch creative team on it, most new readers still didn't know or care enough about the team to bother picking it up. Some people were even mad that the team was able to defeat a hammer-powered Attuma, in their own book! How often do you hear fans complaining about a hero winning in his/her own book?

But in that case; when was the last 'joke' appearance?

'Joke', as in, treat them as not serious? Probably that issue of Wolverine and the X-Men, where Walter and Puck applied to be a teacher at Wolvie's school.

That was the one that came to my mind as well. The writer even threw in the obligatory(?) maple syrup joke. However, I will give kudos for Puck's characterization in Uncanny X-Force. So far he's been shown as witty, badass, and more competent than most of the other characters so far. That's the kind of thing I was talking about when I said they needed positive appearances.

[Flightpath07]

Hippopotami frolicking in the wild

Nice!

I'm trying to imagine a frolicking hippopotamus, and failing; but, having a good time trying.

[Le Messor]

Some people were even mad that the team was able to defeat a hammer-powered Attuma, in their own book!

*sigh*
That's just sad.

I'm trying to imagine a frolicking hippopotamus, and failing; but, having a good time trying.

Have you seen Fantasia?

~ Le Messor
"Keep honking, I'm reloading."

[Phil]

Some people were even mad that the team was able to defeat a hammer-powered Attuma, in their own book! How often do you hear fans complaining about a hero winning in his/her own book?

It was more the inconsistency in writing/editing, in that in the other FI books Attuma was able to take out the whole of the Avengers/Defenders, yet was stopped without a sweat here.

[Le Messor]

It was more the inconsistency in writing/editing, in that in the other FI books Attuma was able to take out the whole of the Avengers/Defenders, yet was stopped without a sweat here.

That does make sense. OTOH, why would people expect sweat? Wouldn't all that water cool them off and wash it away?

[Legerd]

It was more the inconsistency in writing/editing, in that in the other FI books Attuma was able to take out the whole of the Avengers/Defenders, yet was stopped without a sweat here.

I wouldn't say it was without a sweat. AF got exactly three shots in before Attuma smacked Snowbird and Sasquatch like he was their pimp and then sucked the whole team up into a giant waterspout. They were helpless and would most likely have died had Guardian not managed to shunt with the villain to the other side of the continent. A final e-m blast sent him on his way, but Guardian was completely spent at that point falling to the ground unconscious. AF didn't defeat him so much as remove him (and therefor his threat) from the immediate area at a cost to Guardian. Had Attuma wanted to he could have gone back and finished pounding them like nails. Oviously he had better things to do.
But, for the record, I like that AF was able to do better than the Avengers for a change. It makes up for all the times that AF has barely been able to handle villains that street level Avengers are shown to be fully capable of soundly thrashing. For once the fans of other heroes were the ones to have to suck it up, and deal.

[Le Messor]

I wouldn't say it was without a sweat...

If only you could get the message out to all the complaining fans Phil was talking about.

But, for the record, I like that AF was able to do better than the Avengers for a change. It makes up for all the times that AF has barely been able to handle villains that street level Avengers are shown to be fully capable of soundly thrashing. For once the fans of other heroes were the ones to have to suck it up, and deal.

There aren't enough 'e's in agree for how much I agree with this.

~ Le Messor
"Kids were different then. They didn't have their heads filled with all this Cartesian dualism."
~ Monty Python