Article: An Alpha Hint Of Sorts...?

[Phil]

You can view the page at http://alphaflight.net/content.php?7...-Hint-Of-Sorts

[Flightpath07]

Well!

Seeing as how their "last incarnation" was fairly close (debatable, I am sure, but still close) to its original makeup...

...the devil's advocate says that means any plans on a new AF series would then be involving other characters/ideas/premises than what was last presented.

I'm not saying that is absolutely, 100% true; merely reading a bit into the statement by Alonso.

I am also not saying that tweaking the last incarnation of Alpha Flight (to what degree, i don't know) would be either good, or bad.

In all, the only thing that got me down, was "no immediate plans".

The rest, I can live with; because I have no choice. So I will.

This article/quote interests me, but probably only because I care about Alpha Flight, rather than it being interesting in and of itself (or even informative).

No offense given, so none taken, please. I am merely stating the obvious; I want Flight back, and Marvel isn`t (currently) giving them to me, and this article gives a little hope (but only a little, mixed with nervousness and trepidation and angst).

[Mokole]

An olive branch to AF fans, maybe, over the years of lack of trust that time would give the book traction to sell?

[Flightpath07]

I hate olives.

[Mokole]

Even Olive Oyl?

I wonder if they're maybe going back to Alpha/Beta/Gamma with Hudson running H, and a new person or even the synthoid idea brought back for Guardian??

[Phil]

the years of lack of trust that time would give the book traction to sell?

It's not a lack of trust though - the recent series underperformed and didn't sell. Less than Vol's 1, 2, 3 & Omega Flight. And Marvel put a hell of a lot of advertising behind it.

Fans complained that the reasons 2-3 & OF didn't sell was because it wasn't the classic team. This was and still failed. If I was EIC I wouldn't launch a new series now either.

The reason I picked up on this for an article was purely for that last line: "at least in its last incarnation."
This makes me think that perhaps there's a more Omega Flight type thing in the works, maybe not a title but showing up somewhere ala Avengers #10 (but with a bit less death)

[-K-M-]

Yeah sadly Marvel tried to make Alpha Flight work, and we can only blame the consumer I really wished it sold a lot better, no clue why it dropped so much.

[Alphan East]

Fans complained that the reasons 2-3 & OF didn't sell was because it wasn't the classic team. This was and still failed. If I was EIC I wouldn't launch a new series now either.

Phil, you are absolutely correct on this.
I was one of those fans that was waiting for the original team to get another shot at a series, and when it happened I was hoping it was here to stay.
The story was good, the art was incredible, all the characters we had clamored for were back... this should have worked. I still don't understand why the sales fell.

[Legerd]

It's not a lack of trust though - the recent series underperformed and didn't sell. Less than Vol's 1, 2, 3 & Omega Flight. And Marvel put a hell of a lot of advertising behind it.

Fans complained that the reasons 2-3 & OF didn't sell was because it wasn't the classic team. This was and still failed. If I was EIC I wouldn't launch a new series now either.

The real reason Vol. 4 failed is because Marvel writers have spent over thirty years poisoning the AF waters. I don't think I need to rant about how badly the team has been written since the late 80's/early 90's, and that has been the version we continued to get ever since.

EDIT TO CLARIFY: I'm not saying that was what we got in Vol. 4, just that Vol.'s 2, 3, OF, and other Marvel titles still portrayed the team this way, and I think that had an impact on readers' interest in Vol. 4..

You're 100% right Phil, an AF book isn't going to sell now. Most fans nowadays don't know the original series having only read more recent titles where the team is written as jokes/cannon fodder/victims. Marvel needs to first spend the time laying the groundwork. You have to make readers at least like the characters if you expect them to buy the comic, and you do that by giving them guest spots in other titles (and not as jokes/cannon fodder/victims), including the team in big events, having fan favourite characters refer to them positively (no more "they got Alpha Flighted"), showing them as being powerful/smart/competent, and most importantly Marvel employees have to talk positively about them (hell, they have to talk about them, period) in interviews.
If they do all that for a couple of years, then an AF book might sell. But honestly, I think it will take far longer to wash the crappy version readers have been fed for decades out of their mouths than whatever time frame Marvel's plan for the team has.

[Flightpath07]

The real reason Vol. 4 failed is because Marvel writers have spent over thirty years poisoning the AF waters. I don't think I need to rant about how badly the team has been written since the late 80's/early 90's, and that has been the version we continued to get ever since.

EDIT TO CLARIFY: I'm not saying that was what we got in Vol. 4, just that Vol.'s 2, 3, OF, and other Marvel titles still portrayed the team this way, and I think that had an impact on readers' interest in Vol. 4..

You're 100% right Phil, an AF book isn't going to sell now. Most fans nowadays don't know the original series having only read more recent titles where the team is written as jokes/cannon fodder/victims. Marvel needs to first spend the time laying the groundwork. You have to make readers at least like the characters if you expect them to buy the comic, and you do that by giving them guest spots in other titles (and not as jokes/cannon fodder/victims), including the team in big events, having fan favourite characters refer to them positively (no more "they got Alpha Flighted"), showing them as being powerful/smart/competent, and most importantly Marvel employees have to talk positively about them (hell, they have to talk about them, period) in interviews.
If they do all that for a couple of years, then an AF book might sell. But honestly, I think it will take far longer to wash the crappy version readers have been fed for decades out of their mouths than whatever time frame Marvel's plan for the team has.

I agree.

In many ways, it is almost a shame that Alpha Flight wasn't retired by Marvel; by which I mean, killed in an honorable way, saving the earth from destruction or something. At that point, there might be some demand (and interest) in putting together a new team (Omega/Alpha/whatever) that defended Canada, one that might be able to get its own title and hold on to it.

As much as I love the original Flight characters, I am growing weary of seeing them ignored or made jokes of, or just plain ol' poorly-written.

Perhaps a new Omega Flight appearing in the pages of Avengers is just what Doctor Flightpath ordered? Who knows, it may be a precursor of things to come.

[Phil]

The real reason Vol. 4 failed is because Marvel writers have spent over thirty years poisoning the AF waters.

I think poisoning is slightly extreme as that implies it was done on purpose and no company wants their money making products to fail intentionally.
I do agree that there was a lot of bad judgement made when trying to find a unique selling point/voice for the team, but that's easy with hindsight.

[Le Messor]

Yeah sadly Marvel tried to make Alpha Flight work, and we can only blame the consumer I really wished it sold a lot better, no clue why it dropped so much.

I think we can blame more than the consumer. Besides the points (which I agree with) that others have made, that Marvel have been undermining their reputation for ages, there's also the way Marvel are flooding the market with about fifty-two books a month. And only three characters. People following the X-Men, or Spider-Man, or whoever, their budget is already gonna be stretched real thin... That's even if Alpha Flight is visible in the shuffle.

I don't even know what titles Marvel is producing right now.

Also, with Volume 4, I just found it so angry that I had hard time reading it. I kept thinking these characters were mad at me for daring to commit the crime of not being a minority. That isn't the Alpha Flight series I fell in love with.
Even if it hadn't been downgraded to miniseries before the first issue was even out, I would not have continued reading it.

So there are problems that go beyond the consumer, methinks.

~ Le Messor
Tatum: Just think, if they make a movie about all this, who would play you?"
Deputy Dwight "Dewey" Riley: I see you as a young Meg Ryan, myself.
Sidney Prescott: Thanks, Dewey, but with my luck I'd get Tori Spelling.

[Phil]

But this is the issue; if the 10 of us that are active on this forum all want something different out of AF then how the hell are Marvel supposed to write a title for over 100,000 to buy? They're destined to fail.

Short of just republishing the Byrne stuff they cant win. And judging by TPB sales, not even that is relevant anymore.

[Flightpath07]

But this is the issue; if the 10 of us that are active on this forum all want something different out of AF then how the hell are Marvel supposed to write a title for over 100,000 to buy? They're destined to fail.

Short of just republishing the Byrne stuff they cant win. And judging by TPB sales, not even that is relevant anymore.

A fair point.

Which is why, when we ask for Alpha Flight, we get "Captain WolverSpiderMutantAvengerWoman, the billionaire playboy from Asgard" instead. In every comic.

Which goes to my previous point:

In many ways, it is almost a shame that Alpha Flight wasn't retired by Marvel; by which I mean, killed in an honorable way, saving the earth from destruction or something. At that point, there might be some demand (and interest) in putting together a new team (Omega/Alpha/whatever) that defended Canada, one that might be able to get its own title and hold on to it.

I hate to say it, but i'll throw this question out there; anybody else wishing Alpha Flight had stayed dead (circa their off-panel deaths)?

Maybe we need to just petition Marvel for some more Canadian heroes, new and old, to appear (favourably) in other titles. Eventually, some brilliant writer (like Mr. Byrne) might be able to make them into a team, or write an ongoing or mini about one of them that would sell. Who knows?

[Phil]

Which is why, when we ask for Alpha Flight, we get "Captain WolverSpiderMutantAvengerWoman, the billionaire playboy from Asgard" instead. In every comic.

It shouldn't be about us asking though.
And again, faced with a known quantity that sells that means you get to actually feed your family, or something that might/will most likely fail, nine times out of ten you've got to take the safer option.

anybody else wishing Alpha Flight had stayed dead (circa their off-panel deaths)?

I don't, I really enjoyed CW:AF and liked Vol.4, and I've enjoyed Puck in Wolverine & UXF.
Although on a similar note I'm glad Bendis killed them because it took away the whole Vol.3 time-placed doubles thing and it actually stirred up some passion for the team.

Maybe we need to just petition Marvel for some more Canadian heroes, new and old, to appear (favourably) in other titles. Eventually, some brilliant writer (like Mr. Byrne) might be able to make them into a team, or write an ongoing or mini about one of them that would sell. Who knows?

Petitions don't work though.
And it's not just Canadian heroes.
How many successful new characters/teams have Marvel had since Deadpool back in the early 90's?
Runaways is pretty much it. Young Avengers to an extent, but they're not exactly original creations.