Hulk - Mayan Rule

[Le Messor]

As FP says, Walter is immune to the effects meaning they don't harm him, but having experimented on himself he'd surely give off rats in human form?

Just because your immune to radiation doesnt mean you emit radiation.

K-M, it looks ambiguous, but that's not what Phil was saying. He's saying that it's because Walt's immune and and was exposed that he'd give off rads. (Not rats in human form; I believe that's Carrion, and he lives in New York.)

My question is not so much 'is there a connection between Walt / Sas and gamma radiation?' as 'do they say or imply that Sasquatch was created by gamma radiation, and is one of the gamma creatures like Hulk, Doc Sampson, The Leader, or the Abomination?' 'Did he then turn orange because Byrne was such a genius that he foresaw the time when green would no longer exist in comics, and orange was the only colour in the medium?'

- Le Messor
"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."
~ Oscar Wilde

[-K-M-]

I get what he is saying, he says there is a gamma connection and there really is not

Not once has it shown Walter emits radiation and we only saw the one time he tested on himself to replicate the procedure. Yet we never saw a time before or after where he was exposed to radiation. So to say he emit gamma radiation is a stretch.

Yes they said that as why he was orange due to the canadian atmosphere, but as noted he was wrong. He didn't know he opened a door for a mystical creture to power him until later

[Legerd]

If you go by Vol. 4 though gamma radiation is the means by which Walter activates the transformation into Sasquatch, so there is some kind of connection. Whether he would have enough radiation within his cells to merit attention by the Mayan gods is another thing.

[Phil]

K-M, it looks ambiguous, but that's not what Phil was saying. He's saying that it's because Walt's immune and and was exposed that he'd give off rads. (Not rats in human form; I believe that's Carrion, and he lives in New York.)

Indeed. Thanks for understanding my ramblings.
And grr for autocorrect on my phone. I meant rays.

I get what he is saying, he says there is a gamma connection and there really is not

There is undeniably a gamma connection to Walt/Sasquatch.
In Byrne's original Sasquatch origin story in Volume 1 he recreates Banner's accident and submits himself to gamma rays.
FACT.
Walt + Gamma = Connection.
Not a retcon that Greg Pak/Jeff Parker have pulled out of their asses.

Nowhere did I say that Sasquatch was a result of Gamma mutation or a Gamma beast, simply that his origin on this earth involving Walt was connected to Gamma experimentation.

'Connection' being the key word I carefully chose and used.
Heather & Mac have a connection to Woverine. Does this mean they have adamantium claws and a healing factor? No, but they have a connection.
In the same way had Walt never experimented with Gamma rays he would never have opened the portal linking him to Tanaraq.
No Gamma Rays = No Sasquatch.
Connection.

Not once has it shown Walter emits radiation and we only saw the one time he tested on himself to replicate the procedure. Yet we never saw a time before or after where he was exposed to radiation. So to say he emit gamma radiation is a stretch.

That was something I was hypothesizing about after YOU brought up emitting gamma, so yeah that's fine.
However, nowhere has it been said/shown that he doesn't emit them, so we have nothing in canon either way.

He didn't know he opened a door for a mystical creture to power him until later

Again, opened by the Gamma rays. Connection.

If you go by Vol. 4 though gamma radiation is the means by which Walter activates the transformation into Sasquatch, so there is some kind of connection.

There is that, but I was simply focusing on Byrne's origin.

Whether he would have enough radiation within his cells to merit attention by the Mayan gods is another thing.

Yeah, again, that was me just flowing with this thread.

Looking at the line that's started this whole thing:

...Yet we have almost all we need now. And you brought them. ... The Gamma Race has been instrumental in our return here

it can be taken several ways, and I was never actually defending the line.

[-K-M-]

Sweet you ignored what I said really. Yes Bryne made a "connection", but the connection as NOTED even by Bryne himself the gamma radiation opened a gateway it did NOT manipulate or modify him directly. Nor does gamma radiation course through him, nor is gamma radiation emitted from Walter or Sasquatch nor was gamma radiation refered to again after it was revealed what Walter thought he did during the experiment was in fact wrong and nor did Walter's current body even go through the gamma radiation experiment making it all trivial.

Following that logic if an energy source is used to open up a doorway such as how Shaman opened up a gateway to the realm of the beasts with magic that means Vindicator, Aurora, etc. all have magical connection then? No. Mr.Fantastic opens gatways to the Negative zone is he powered by that? No. Gamma radiation was the key to open the door, Sasquatch, nor Tanaraq are powered by it their powered by magic as noted. The connection your holding on to is a vague connection and not that strong and prior to Vol.4 was not referenced of Walter being gamma radiation depended.

If you want to nitpick my word use of cameo earlier, Im doing the exact same thing to you now.

[-K-M-]

If you go by Vol. 4 though gamma radiation is the means by which Walter activates the transformation into Sasquatch, so there is some kind of connection. Whether he would have enough radiation within his cells to merit attention by the Mayan gods is another thing.

*sigh* Clearly you guys are not getting what I'm saying. As I said earlier, "I feel the whole Sasquatch/Tanaraq connection is being ignored for a more gamma radiation orgin". The writers are ignoring the Tanaraq connection and going with the gamma radiation route as prior to AF vol.4 he is and was powered by magic. Hence why Talisman could manipulate him several times and as noted by other mystical sensistive characters could sense Walter. Not once did someone comment on his gamma radiation connection prior to the mystical reveal, nor did it ever say he was gamma radiation dependent.

Also add to the fact he is in Snowbird's body, a body that did not even go through the gamma radiation experiment.

This is a retcon.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I could totally be recalling this wrong, but I thought Snowbird had indicated (in issue #23 of Volume 1) that the Sasquatch form was a new being and not Tanaraq's true form (and since this new being was born in Canada she was able to take its shape)? I always thought that Sasquatch was a combo of a gamma mutated human and Tanaraq's spirit which came through the portal created by Langkowski's experiment? So he is actually a combo of science and magic?

Dana

[-K-M-]

I could totally be recalling this wrong, but I thought Snowbird had indicated (in issue #23 of Volume 1) that the Sasquatch form was a new being and not Tanaraq's true form (and since this new being was born in Canada she was able to take its shape)? I always thought that Sasquatch was a combo of a gamma mutated human and Tanaraq's spirit which came through the portal created by Langkowski's experiment? So he is actually a combo of science and magic?

Dana

That was the original belief, but that was changed when they learnt more. As noted the gamma radiation smashed the gateways for the Beasts to enter. At that time Snowbird did not know much of what was going on and didn't even know Walter had a connection to Tanaraq. We have seen Snowbird take the form of 3 Great Beasts in total, she was mistaken as was Walter beliving he gained his powers through gamma radiation alone.

[Le Messor]

*sigh* Clearly you guys are not getting what I'm saying. As I said earlier, "I feel the whole Sasquatch/Tanaraq connection is being ignored for a more gamma radiation orgin".

I don't think we are, we're just saying that he could still have gamma radiation in his body. And trying to make sense of the comic (which I haven't read yet, I'm just trying to reconcile what's being said on this thread; I could be missing pertinent details because of it).
Walter bombarded himself with gamma during his origin; which is different to your examples above. It could still be there (at least, the way it works in the MU, it could). Nobody here is saying that's what made Sasquatch, just that it's still in his system. Which hasn't been mentioned before, because why would it?

Also add to the fact he is in Snowbird's body, a body that did not even go through the gamma radiation experiment.

Now that is completely true and shows sloppy research by the writers.

- Le Messor
"If you think squash is a competitive activity, try flower arranging."
~ Alan Bennett

[-K-M-]

From his recent bio:
"Eventually working in an isolated lab above the Artic Circle, Langkwoski exposed himself to gamma rays, hoping to recreate the Hulk mutation under controlled circumstances. Instead, he unknowingly peirced a mystic barrier that imprisoned the Great Beast Tanaraq, allowing him to form a mystic symbiosis with Langwaski, transforming Langwoski into a bestial avatar of Tanaraq; however, Longwoski wrongly believed the unexpected orange-furred results of the experiment were from a combination of mixing gamma radiation and cosmic rays with the Aurora Borelesis"

They also specfically go on to mention several times he is mystical powered and was mystically bonded.

[-K-M-]

I don't think we are, we're just saying that he could still have gamma radiation in his body. And trying to make sense of the comic (which I haven't read yet, I'm just trying to reconcile what's being said on this thread; I could be missing pertinent details because of it).
Walter bombarded himself with gamma during his origin; which is different to your examples above. It could still be there (at least, the way it works in the MU, it could). Nobody here is saying that's what made Sasquatch, just that it's still in his system. Which hasn't been mentioned before, because why would it?

Now that is completely true and shows sloppy research by the writers.

- Le Messor
"If you think squash is a competitive activity, try flower arranging."
~ Alan Bennett

and other characters bombared themeselves with magic (such as Iron Man) but does that mean he have a magical connection? No. As noted all the gamma rays did was open the door for Walter to gain the powers of Tanaraq. Radation eventually decays and wouldn't constantly remain especially with someone that has a healing factor. Look at Wolverine and the amount of radiation he has been exposed to, but he does not emit radiation or have radiation in his system

[Le Messor]

I could totally be recalling this wrong, but I thought Snowbird had indicated (in issue #23 of Volume 1) that the Sasquatch form was a new being and not Tanaraq's true form

That's a possible interpretation - I got that it was the combination of Walter and Tanaraq that was new, not the form itself, as indicated by her 'rents, showing Birdie the form of the last Great Beast, and it was Sas. Also, we've only ever seen Tanaraq looking like Sas, no other form.

and other characters bombared themeselves with magic (such as Iron Man) but does that mean he have a magical connection?

Look at it this way - I'd never have written a comic that said that Walter still has gamma radiation in his (much less Snowbird's) body. However, now that we (apparently) have one, I'm just trying to make it make some sense.

Oh, well, at least nobody's ever said he's a dog-mutant.

- Le Messor
"If you took all the sincerity in Hollywood and put it in the navel of a fruit fly, you'd still have room for three carraway seeds and a producer's heart."
~ Fred Allen

[cmdrkoenig67]

But do we know for a fact that Sasquatch has Tanaraq's powers or are they merely the powers this avatar form has? Do we even know for a fact that Tanaraq had a physical form or did he just influence the form that Langkowski's experiment created so he could inhabit it? There seems to be still a few questions left unanswered where Tanaraq and Sasquatch are concerned.

BTW: Snowbird being able to transform into Great Beasts is a retcon too, isn't it? She originally could only transform into Native canadian beings and animals, then later she was free to transform into any animal native to Earth (later in Volume 1). As she said in volume 1, she could transform into the Sasquatch form because it was a native-born Canadian creature...Tanaraq is not, as he and the Great Beasts are extra-dimensional beings.

Snowbird being able to transform into Neooqtoq and Tundra are retcons, AFAIK (since they are aliens, unless of course, they were both somehow born on Earth or perhaps their forms are Earthly avatars that she can become?).

Dana

[-K-M-]

Look at it this way - I'd never have written a comic that said that Walter still has gamma radiation in his (much less Snowbird's) body. However, now that we (apparently) have one, I'm just trying to make it make some sense.

Oh, well, at least nobody's ever said he's a dog-mutant.

- Le Messor
"If you took all the sincerity in Hollywood and put it in the navel of a fruit fly, you'd still have room for three carraway seeds and a producer's heart."
~ Fred Allen

Yes, which as I was saying this is a retcon. As my original comment "I feel the whole Sasquatch/Tanaraq connection is being ignored for a more gamma radiation orgin", indicates that prior to Vol.4 the gamma connection was not referenced nor was he dependent on gamma radiation. The writers are modifying his origins/powers for their story same way Loeb was trying with Sasquatch being a Lupine. All gamma radiation did was open a door for a mystical force to walk through, that's the extent of the connection.

[-K-M-]

But do we know for a fact that Sasquatch has Tanaraq's powers or are they merely the powers this avatar form has? Do we even know for a fact that Tanaraq had a physical form or did he just influence the form that Langkowski's experiment created so he could inhabit it? There seems to be still a few questions left unanswered where Tanaraq and Sasquatch are concerned.

Dana

Indeed, it's mentioned in the bios he is class 90 in his base form but can draw on more strength by tapping more into Tanaraq. In the bio it also says, "Langwoski's soul later animated Snowbird's body granting him idential powers as Tanaraq's form".