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Thread: Volume 4 questions

  1. #61
    Alpha Flight

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    Don't be mad, but I thought it was a bit lazy of him. lol He tells us awesome stuff happened but we don't get to see it, we only get to see it all fall apart, and we hardly even knew many of the characters at that point. It was exciting to start the story at the Flight Program's downfall, but some flashbacks to fill out some character development would have made an already daring and innovative story ten times deeper and more compelling.
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  2. #62
    I'm a RealWyldeChild Alpha Flight
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    Quote Originally Posted by EccentricSage View Post
    Don't be mad, but I thought it was a bit lazy of him. lol He tells us awesome stuff happened but we don't get to see it, we only get to see it all fall apart, and we hardly even knew many of the characters at that point. It was exciting to start the story at the Flight Program's downfall, but some flashbacks to fill out some character development would have made an already daring and innovative story ten times deeper and more compelling.
    By the time he got to the point of showing us that panel of Gamma and Beta, he was already bored with writing the series and bitter over having been 'forced' to do so. I don't think it was so much lazy, as just being a snobby prick. "Ha! I'll show them all this, and they'll want more, but i won't give it to them. Stupid fans..."

    I find my opinion of JB very negative, in spite of his amazing talent for art, story, and character creation.

    He was planning very early to kill off James Hudson, have the team flounder, probably hoping Marvel would pull the plug on the series or something. And his interest in doing MORE telling of back stories, which was essentially what the series was all about to begin with, was likely not very high.

    I think we are lucky to have gotten the brilliance we got from him, seeing he thought the way he did about writing these characters in a series. Until his attitude changes (and I have no indication that it has, or ever will), I'd prefer he not come within three kilometers of any AF characters.
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  3. #63
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    I imagine he might've told those stories if he'd spent more time on the book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flightpath07 View Post
    By the time he got to the point of showing us that panel of Gamma and Beta, he was already bored with writing the series and bitter over having been 'forced' to do so. I don't think it was so much lazy, as just being a snobby prick. "Ha! I'll show them all this, and they'll want more, but i won't give it to them. Stupid fans..."
    LOL! The Very first panels of the book!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flightpath07 View Post
    I think we are lucky to have gotten the brilliance we got from him, seeing he thought the way he did about writing these characters in a series. Until his attitude changes (and I have no indication that it has, or ever will), I'd prefer he not come within three kilometers of any AF characters.
    Given what he created with that attitude, I still wouldn't mind giving it a shot.

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  4. #64
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    He said on his forum that it was an honor to have contributed a team of characters to the MU, and in regards to Wildchild that he wanted him to be mysterious and let others fill out his back story. Well, we all know how well that tactic turns out now, huh? lol I'm not as bitter about that... So he wanted to write Hulk and stuff, I get it. But damn it, Byrne... XD Wildchild and Lil would have fared a lot better if their creator gave them more of an established background for people to work with. Hell, Smart Alec probably would have gotten revived like Shaman planned if he had any back story, too. Madison Jeffries had a compelling back story and despite being kicked around in the X-Titles a bit, he has endured. Shame about Roger Bochs, though. Flashback was an uninteresting jerk with no back story but a compelling dilemma.

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  5. #65
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    Flashback was an uninteresting jerk with no back story but a compelling dilemma.
    They made him a bit too much of a milksop, if you ask me, especially how he was handled in Volume 3 (although the dilemma he was in was interesting, i must admit as well).

    Lil had a lot going for her, but after Volume 2 used her (but barely), there seemed to be little to no interest in her. Unfortunately, most of the AF characters that could have (should have) been great, never got much page-time in other series, so only us die-hard AF fans know and love them.

    Smart Alec was always an anomaly for me, an enigma. Was he, too, controlled by Courtney? How could the "world's smartest man" have gone so horribly wrong, so easily? I wish he could have been revived, maybe instead of as a hero then as one of the heads of a new Department H. His intellect would have been most useful...

    ...As would Bochs' brains, if used properly. Instead, they took something that we see too few of in comics, a 'handicapped' hero, and made him a joke by giving him legs, then throwing him into the ol' Scramble melting pot and just doing away with him. And don't even get me started on his stupid relationship with Aurora! Bochs was an awesome and inspiring hero, and should never have been messed with.
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  6. #66
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    Marvel hates characters who aren't thin and beautiful, far as I can tell. Bochs was neither. Madison wasn't good looking ether, but now he looks like Reed Richards. If a character isn't beautiful, they must ether be changed, or punished for it, or just played for laughs or pity. House of Ideas my ass.

    The only character who escaped Courtney's influence was Madison, which he attributed to his powers. This just makes it extra bull**** that most of Omega Flight's members even went to prison in the first place. Alec's greatest downfal was probably hubris. When you believe your own intellect infallible, you will not question your own perception or motives. The think that set Courtney apart from other cases of 'lol Mind Control!' is that it was subtle. The desires and impulses of the characters were their own. They felt abandoned and betrayed, and wanted something better. I'm sure there was intense jealousy and resentment towards Alpha Flight for being the chosen elite while the rest of them were were thrown out on their asses. Wildchild and Lil were most susceptible because of their tempers and lack of hope for a future. Alec and Flashback both had their arrogance that Courtney could play on. Bochs and Madison were down to earth, had skills with which they could still get out of the rut they were in, and genuinely liked Mac. Madison kind of throws his former team mates under the buss to get on team Alpha. He was right to destroy Courtney but he told Lil they'd have to take the fall. Damn that was cold.

    I'm missing a lot of the issues with Bochs after Byrne's run, unfortunately. I don't really blame him or the writer for him wanting his legs back... no one WANTS to be crippled... well, ok, there are people with certain mental issues and emotional complexes who do, but that's another subject and off topic. Point is, it's the result of him trying to get his body restored that sucks so bad.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flightpath07 View Post
    Smart Alec was always an anomaly for me, an enigma. Was he, too, controlled by Courtney? How could the "world's smartest man" have gone so horribly wrong, so easily?
    Well, some of that smartosity was just arrogant boasting.
    But not all.

    Quote Originally Posted by EccentricSage View Post
    The only character who escaped Courtney's influence was Madison, which he attributed to his powers.
    Bochs did, too. Because they didn't want him, just his robot.

    Quote Originally Posted by EccentricSage View Post
    I'm missing a lot of the issues with Bochs after Byrne's run, unfortunately. I don't really blame him or the writer for him wanting his legs back... no one WANTS to be crippled...
    True - in fact, not wanting to be crippled is why he built Box in the first place.
    I think it's more that, though. In real life, very few people get to stop being crippled; and having one of the few comics characters who is like a lot of real-life people suddenly being able to walk is just a cop-out #coughOraclecough#.

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  8. #68
    The Eclectic Opinionator Alpha Flight
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    At the time John Byrne was doing Alpha Flight (art & writing), he was doing Fantastic Four (art & writing) and writing The Thing. As talented as he was, it seemed like he was spreading himself a little thin. I personally hoped he would devote more to Alpha Flight, but it's clear his interest was more with the Fantastic Four.

    Still, even given the fact that AF was being written as if were a self-inflicted maxi-series, the popularity/success of the series/team/concept could not be contained.

    Ironically, at the time, Bill Mantlo had some of the most astute observations about the 28-issue run (in interviews in fanzines of that era). It still amazes me that after summarizing the Byrne era so well, the stories that came after were so...poorly executed and denigrating to what had been established. "Continuity", in Alpha Flight's case, is not a blessing.

    I would even say that "continuity" is an oxymoron for AF.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    Ironically, at the time, Bill Mantlo had some of the most astute observations about the 28-issue run (in interviews in fanzines of that era). It still amazes me that after summarizing the Byrne era so well, the stories that came after were so...poorly executed and denigrating
    Not so amazing, perhaps, if you allow for his mental breakdown.

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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    At the time John Byrne was doing Alpha Flight (art & writing), he was doing Fantastic Four (art & writing) and writing The Thing. As talented as he was, it seemed like he was spreading himself a little thin. I personally hoped he would devote more to Alpha Flight, but it's clear his interest was more with the Fantastic Four.

    Still, even given the fact that AF was being written as if were a self-inflicted maxi-series, the popularity/success of the series/team/concept could not be contained.

    Ironically, at the time, Bill Mantlo had some of the most astute observations about the 28-issue run (in interviews in fanzines of that era). It still amazes me that after summarizing the Byrne era so well, the stories that came after were so...poorly executed and denigrating to what had been established. "Continuity", in Alpha Flight's case, is not a blessing.

    I would even say that "continuity" is an oxymoron for AF.
    Agreed, and strangely enough along the line of thoughts I just had here.

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