Article: Hulk & Alpha Flight to take on Mayan Gods

[Sypes]

I'm hoping we get a little more Snowbird love this time around. I found she didn't get much of any character development in AF mini-serie.

[Flightpath07]

I'm hoping we get a little more Snowbird love this time around. I found she didn't get much of any character development in AF mini-serie.

One of the main problems with short appearances, be they one-shots or mini-series or maxi-series or other, when you are dealing with a team of characters; not enough character development. This is especially true of a team like Alpha Flight, where so many of us grew up on John Byrne's original Flight stories where character development is one of the things that drew us to them. Only a long series will have a chance to give us that. Almost a Catch-22.

[Phil]

the page which truly shows how childish Wolverine & Guardian's "rivalry" is --- and Sasquatch punches them both. That's good.

*Does a little 'I own that page' dance*

One of the main problems with short appearances, be they one-shots or mini-series or maxi-series or other, when you are dealing with a team of characters; not enough character development. This is especially true of a team like Alpha Flight, where so many of us grew up on John Byrne's original Flight stories where character development is one of the things that drew us to them. Only a long series will have a chance to give us that. Almost a Catch-22.

I do agree.
The maxi-series being as short as it was didn't allow for any character growth, so short appearances are even less likely to.
I think that's where the beauty of Byrne's split issue origins and having a dissassembled team so he could do individual character based issues really helped; but in this day and age I don't think that'd work. Due to average comic-reader's interest span or whatever.

However; AF's first appearance was as a guest appearance and everything else sprung from that/those; without guest appearances we'd never have had the Byrne run.
Northstar's guest appearance in Uncanny introduced Kyle which I think is a stronger character than almost all AF-related characters since Byrne.

[Le Messor]

*Does a little 'I own that page' dance*

Congrats! You deserve it.

Northstar's guest appearance in Uncanny introduced Kyle which I think is a stronger character than almost all AF-related characters since Byrne.

Probably because he was given more page space than some of the Alphans, and more character page space than most of them. Even Guardian forgot he was married by the end, and Northstar had to remind him.

I think that's where the beauty of Byrne's split issue origins and having a dissassembled team so he could do individual character based issues really helped; but in this day and age I don't think that'd work. Due to average comic-reader's interest span or whatever.

Sorry, but this smacks of that defeatist attitude I keep noticing whenever somebody brings up the idea that comics aren't as good as they used to be.
If I say 'comics aren't fun anymore', they'll always say 'what worked in the 70s and 80s doesn't work today'.
I know that, back then, I was spoiled for choice; I could have picked any random book off the LCS shelf and I probably would have liked it - some more than others, yes (not everything can be Byrne's Alpha Flight), and they were selling in their hundreds of thousands. Nowdays, I've got to force myself to find one Marvel series I can enjoy (Avengers Academy, for the record), and they're selling in the tens of thousands.
Every time I try to point that out, somebody says 'that stuff doesn't work now; comics can't sell like they used to because people are playing computer games' etc...
I'm not playing computer games. I never got into them.

It isn't because something else is good that I have such a hard time finding comics I enjoy now; nor is it because I've changed a lot - when I read comics from the 70s and 80s, I still generally enjoy them. When I read modern comics, I don't enjoy them as much; or, in too many cases, at all.

When was the last time comic companies tried the stuff that worked so well in the 70's and 80's? Across the line, I mean?
Maybe if they were willing to go back to that, they wouldn't be losing so many readers.
Maybe if comics companies looked to themselves, and changed themselves, (without using the forced, artificial and short-term ways of driving up sales that went nova in the 90s) they could bring their sales up again?
Not to the levels they used to be - I'm not going to say that computer games and internet have nothing to do with low sales - but up.
*sigh* Rant paused, for now.

- Le Messor
"One can never fully appreciate companionship if one has never experienced loneliness."
~ J.D. Boatwood

[Sypes]

I know the mini-series wasn't the best place for any character development, but that being said, I felt that some members of AF did get some justice in it. For example, Marrina seemed more exciting to see in action; Northstar appeared "deeper" rather than his shallow self; Heather seemed sure of herself compared to when she was leader of the team (in most issues at least); and for once, I actually liked Guardian, where in the past, I sort of thought he was lame.

[Phil]

Probably because he was given more page space than some of the Alphans, and more character page space than most of them. Even Guardian forgot he was married by the end, and Northstar had to remind him.

Oh, I didn't mean within the maxi-series, I meant as guest appearances alone.

Sorry, but this smacks of that defeatist attitude I keep noticing whenever somebody brings up the idea that comics aren't as good as they used to be.

I didn't mean it in a defeatist way, or that comics aren't as good as they used to be.
More that if you gave an average 10 year old the choice between an X-Box with Call of Duty or a 20-22 page comic book split into two stories that they'll consume within 2 minutes, chances are they'll pick the former. It's an attention span and value for money thing. But that ties in with your later point.

If I say 'comics aren't fun anymore', they'll always say 'what worked in the 70s and 80s doesn't work today'.

I agree with you, comics aren't fun.
And I think that's because of the grim and gritty realism the superhero genre went down in the 80's. WE now have a generation of comic writers writing comics just like that for themselves. They read grim and gritty and want grim and gritty and write grim and gritty so they can read it.

Every time I try to point that out, somebody says 'that stuff doesn't work now; comics can't sell like they used to because people are playing computer games' etc...

I wouldn't say that; I firmly believe that the comics medium has the potential to outsell any game.
The tired, recycled superhero genre and the distribution method is the problem.
Comics aren't not selling because of computer games, it's because comics aren't as fun or engaging as computer games are, and definitely aren't worth the equivalent money to time/enjoyment gained from. Not because they're comics, but because it's rare to find something new and engaging because publishers can't afford to take the risk to try new things because of bad deals they made in the 90's and because of the poor distribution system we have.

I'm not playing computer games. I never got into them.

But the next generation, who should be spending all their pocket money on comics at newsstands and grocery stores are.

When I read modern comics, I don't enjoy them as much; or, in too many cases, at all.

Totally agreed.

When was the last time comic companies tried the stuff that worked so well in the 70's and 80's? Across the line, I mean?
Maybe if they were willing to go back to that, they wouldn't be losing so many readers.

Maybe if comics companies looked to themselves, and changed themselves, (without using the forced, artificial and short-term ways of driving up sales that went nova in the 90s) they could bring their sales up again?

Again, I totally agree with you.
I just know it's harder because of the reasons I outlined above. It's why this potential creator-owned boom is interesting.

And again, just my thoughts on why the industry is dying on it's arse.

[Flightpath07]

Whoa. Did Phil and Mik just agree on a comic-related subject? lol.

No, seriously, good rant-and-response going there. Have to give you both props for being well-articulated, and also have to agree with you both. [oh man oh man oh man, i hope that the word 'props' hyper-links to a site on airplanes!]

[Le Messor]

Then we are in agreement.

Step 2: 500 marmots and a wet pineapple.

[Phil]

Sorry, but I totally disagree, you're obviously barking mad.

Step 2 is quite clearly 500 pineapples and a wet marmot.

[Flightpath07]

I thought step two involved dunking Justin Bieber in a giant vat of raw hamburger and then turning him loose in the tiger cage? [ man, I have GOT to get a new manual, mine is obviously different than the one you two have! ]

[Le Messor]

Phil, I always get those two backwards. Sorry.
FP, that's step 3.

- Le Messor
"If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?"

[Flightpath07]

Phil, I always get those two backwards. Sorry.
FP, that's step 3.

- Le Messor
"If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?"

I always believed that lingerie was meant to be like braille...

[Le Messor]

I always believed that lingerie was meant to be like braille...

Massive LOL!

Phil, I was glib before because I was in a rush... no, not in Rush. If I was going to joing a Canadian band, it'd be Alpha Flight... anyway, I think your well thought-out post deserves a better response.

I didn't mean it in a defeatist way, or that comics aren't as good as they used to be.

Apologies. I have seen that defeatism a lot before, including right here on Alpha Waves, so I jumped the gun. Or the shark. Take your pick.

More that if you gave an average 10 year old the choice between an X-Box with Call of Duty or a 20-22 page comic book split into two stories that they'll consume within 2 minutes, chances are they'll pick the former. It's an attention span and value for money thing.

That makes sense, and I see where you're coming from now.

And I think that's because of the grim and gritty realism the superhero genre went down in the 80's. WE now have a generation of comic writers writing comics just like that for themselves. They read grim and gritty and want grim and gritty and write grim and gritty so they can read it.

I like the circular logic there.
I'd say that the sting happened in the 80's, but the infection didn't set in - didn't become a cancer - 'til the 90's.
But that's just my opinion.

the next generation, who should be spending all their pocket money on comics

They so should be!

Okay, that wasn't so much a well thought-out response I wrote just now as mindless agreement. But, that's what happens when people agree!

Now, where did I leave that marmot?

- Le Messor
"If little else, the brain is an educational toy."
~ Tom Robbins

[Flightpath07]

"If I was going to joing a Canadian band, it'd be Alpha Flight"

You should 'Follow Your Heart' and join Triumph instead.

[Le Messor]

I was thinking about having a Tea Party, but then I'd have to wait for the edge of twilight.