Viable property, disrespected team, target of industry hate, cash cow...

[marvelboy74]

From one newbie to another, I bid thy...welcome.

I though of that as well that there were the others that didn't go on that mission. But as they said in OF the others were underqualified, not interested or just moved on. Most of the remaining AFers were not very popular and I don't think they'd be very successful in starting up the series again. AF suffer the same symptons as Excalibur, they are a novelty, heros in Canada, heros in England, when the novelty wears off they axe it.

I'm reading the Winter Guard mini and the writer has stated there is a possibility of an ongoing. I would like to think there is more of a fanbase for Alpha than the Winter Guard but here were are with many of the WG characters that are derivatives of the originals.

But to inquire about your point, do you think CB & MI 13 failed because of the characters, writing, or basic premise? On paper, it sounded like a hot team with Captain Britain, Pete Wisdom and later, Blade but I found the writing too British, if that makes sense.

[Alpha Rider]

I understand. The British thing is very hard to understand if you are familare with the culture, the same can be said for the Japanese. But I do think that AF has a bigger fanbase than WG. The only reason I can think of for the team being mostly original charaters is that we never seen them in an ongoing series such as AF. AF have over 160 issue within all the incarnations of the team and we seen them evolve over the past over 30 years, so it would hard to keep the same team. The WG only were in sperattic apperances throughout their history so we never really got a good sence of who they were. BTW How many Red Guardians have there been so far? 6?

[marvelboy74]

There have been quite a few Red Guardians, Darkstars and Crimson Dynamos. Wikipedia says there are 7 Red Guardians. The one thing I can say about WG is that the series references the past for the long time readers but seems easy to jump into for a new reader. Maybe Alpha is too bogged down with 30 years of baggage?

[Alpha Rider]

Well that's why I suggested a new team roster. I know that everyone loves the old guys and gals, but maybe it's time for a change. Someone wrote that they tried to do this in volIII, but lets face it. the new gus they brought in vol III were crap Major Maple leaf and Puck II could have been flushed out better, Centinial could have worked, Yukon Jack was the worst of the lot. Nemises was was done so poorly and Sasqustch was the main focal point due to his counterpart in Exiles being popular. They figuard lets make a new AF series around Sas.

[Mokole]

As I see it, the team is quite viable. Most team books at Marvel now seem to be boringly centered on storylines of either a global nature that nobody on Marvel Earth notices but the characters, or character angst. A new person in the Guardian suit with a true heroic agenda to lead this team on jobs you'd think a team could do that don't make the news. Sasquatch as a part-time operative because he really is a scientist. Puck not dead. A new pro-active but team-oriented Nemesis. A team where costumes and secret identities are necessary. No revolving door. 5 members, all action-able. Guardian, Puck, Nemesis, and two more, maybe a new Killjoy and a truly new concept character, or a Windshear based suit. I know this team could work, not a violent team but an action team, smart but hit hard when hard hitting is necessary. Back to black and white issues, heroes and villains, not political.

[Alpha Rider]

Which Puck is not dead? and are you sure? Have you noticed something that we have missed? It would be hard to keep a team with the same roster. Even the FF had a few guys come and go, but they always retuned to the original line up. The only difference between the FF and other teams, is that they are a family, all the other teams are not.

[cmdrkoenig67]

There have been quite a few Red Guardians, Darkstars and Crimson Dynamos. Wikipedia says there are 7 Red Guardians. The one thing I can say about WG is that the series references the past for the long time readers but seems easy to jump into for a new reader. Maybe Alpha is too bogged down with 30 years of baggage?

Seems to me Winter Guard is just as burdened by "too much to take in" continuity. Along with the several Red Guardian/Steel Guardians, etc.., Several Darkstars and Crimson Dynamos...There's all the changes the team has had in line-ups and names (Soviet Super Soldiers, Exiles, People's Protectorate, now Winter Guard) and the fact that it's actually two different teams thrown together. They've had just as many different modus operendi, as well...State-serving team of mutants, mutant renegades, State-serving power-mixed team of lackies, etc, etc...

I'm rather disgusted to hear they may do an ongoing...Makes me even more peeved at Marvel. How the heck would Winter Guard have even half of the audience that Alpha Flight would? Alpha has members who are X-Men for Dog's sake (Northstar, Madison and even Wolverine).

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

Which Puck is not dead? and are you sure? Have you noticed something that we have missed? It would be hard to keep a team with the same roster. Even the FF had a few guys come and go, but they always retuned to the original line up. The only difference between the FF and other teams, is that they are a family, all the other teams are not.

He's just saying Puck could be revealed to be a "survivor" and used on the team. We have no confirmation on the actual "deaths", besides Talisman stating that her father was dead and Snowbird claiming that Pointer killed her friends. There is still wiggle room.

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

Which Puck is not dead? and are you sure? Have you noticed something that we have missed? It would be hard to keep a team with the same roster. Even the FF had a few guys come and go, but they always retuned to the original line up. The only difference between the FF and other teams, is that they are a family, all the other teams are not.

Most of Alpha Flight was related too...Heather and Mac, Heather and Talisman/Elizabeth, Elizabeth and Shaman/Michael, Michael and Snowbird...Walter and Jeanne-Marie (as a couple), Jeanne-Marie and Jean Paul...Many of them were connected in some familial way.

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

I have no problem with new members...What I do have a problem with is new members that are tacked on ...As much as I liked the characters...Persuasion, Manikin and Goblyn did not fit into Alpha Flight. They belonged on some X-Team.

I certainly don't want the entire original team back as Alpha Flight either...Mac's been killed off more than Jean Grey/Phoenix and I really don't want him back (not to mention, he's been handled quite badly every time he comes back), Puck's origin, his very being has been screwed up majorly and Marrina's fate has been dealt with quite brutally.

I'm being honest here and this will be old news...I LOVE Puck, but he's a flipping mess continuity-wise. As much as I love Bill Mantlo's writing on other series (The Micronauts, Rom, etc...), he destroyed the character. He totally went against what was already established by John Byrne for the character. Puck was and was always supposed to be an actual little person with near-crippling pain because of his condition....NOT because of a stupid demon sorcerer. What made him exception is not demon-possession or super powers, but that he was in pain, short and fought every day to be the best he could be...Mr Mantlo came along and screwed that all up.

I'd really rather Heather be revealed to have survived, as opposed to Puck...She could be the behind-the-scenes leader as she was meant to be, raising her daughter.

I totally disagree with Mokole on Sasquatch...Walter is not a sit on the sidelines guy...He's a former football player and turns into a giant, hulk-level strength super-being...Why relegate him to sitting in a lab somewhere?

I'm also not against a new person wearing the Guardian suit (and called Guardian, not Vindicator), just as long as Michael Pointer is never let near the suit again.

I also believe Northstar, Aurora and Madison would be a heck of a lot safer away from the "mutant massacre waiting-to-happen", that is the X-Men's Utopia. Canada doesn't lock it's mutants up, does it? No, they're just asked to join their superteams and be equal members-in-standing. Having all the mutants in one place is like painting a giant target on the area so it's visible even from orbit...It's a dumb, dumb idea.

I'd love for some older members to reappear, but not necessarily as full-time team members...Snowbird has a "divine" mission and could be a reserve member, Talisman is also on a different path and could be a reservist as well.

As for a whole new line-up...No...It's never going to work.

I don't read Alpha Flight for the name, but for the characters. If not for Heather and Puck, I would have dropped Volume 2 in an instant...Without Walter, there's no way I would have kept reading the steaming pile that was Volume 3...And if Sasquatch and Talisman were absent from Omega Flight...I would never have picked the book up.

Dana

[mreeez]

He's just saying Puck could be revealed to be a "survivor" and used on the team. We have no confirmation on the actual "deaths", besides Talisman stating that her father was dead and Snowbird claiming that Pointer killed her friends. There is still wiggle room.

Dana

I think there was an issue of Herc where he was in a bar in the afterlife and Puck (also Marrina) were there.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Close Mreez...It was a casino and those that were there were playing for the chance to get resurrected...Funny that.

Dana

[marvelboy74]

Seems to me Winter Guard is just as burdened by "too much to take in" continuity. Along with the several Red Guardian/Steel Guardians, etc.., Several Darkstars and Crimson Dynamos...There's all the changes the team has had in line-ups and names (Soviet Super Soldiers, Exiles, People's Protectorate, now Winter Guard) and the fact that it's actually two different teams thrown together. They've had just as many different modus operendi, as well...State-serving team of mutants, mutant renegades, State-serving power-mixed team of lackies, etc, etc...

I'm rather disgusted to hear they may do an ongoing...Makes me even more peeved at Marvel. How the heck would Winter Guard have even half of the audience that Alpha Flight would? Alpha has members who are X-Men for Dog's sake (Northstar, Madison and even Wolverine).

Dana

David Gallaher, WG writer, is active on the Comic Book Resources boards and basically confirmed that Marvel is still testing out the title and that he has plenty of ideas for an ongoing. For their history, most of the characters are blank slates. I just wish someone had a few bright ideas for Alpha

[marvelboy74]

I have no problem with new members...What I do have a problem with is new members that are tacked on ...As much as I liked the characters...Persuasion, Manikin and Goblyn did not fit into Alpha Flight. They belonged on some X-Team.

I certainly don't want the entire original team back as Alpha Flight either...Mac's been killed off more than Jean Grey/Phoenix and I really don't want him back (not to mention, he's been handled quite badly every time he comes back), Puck's origin, his very being has been screwed up majorly and Marrina's fate has been dealt with quite brutally.

I'm being honest here and this will be old news...I LOVE Puck, but he's a flipping mess continuity-wise. As much as I love Bill Mantlo's writing on other series (The Micronauts, Rom, etc...), he destroyed the character. He totally went against what was already established by John Byrne for the character. Puck was and was always supposed to be an actual little person with near-crippling pain because of his condition....NOT because of a stupid demon sorcerer. What made him exception is not demon-possession or super powers, but that he was in pain, short and fought every day to be the best he could be...Mr Mantlo came along and screwed that all up.

I'd really rather Heather be revealed to have survived, as opposed to Puck...She could be the behind-the-scenes leader as she was meant to be, raising her daughter.

I totally disagree with Mokole on Sasquatch...Walter is not a sit on the sidelines guy...He's a former football player and turns into a giant, hulk-level strength super-being...Why relegate him to sitting in a lab somewhere?

I'm also not against a new person wearing the Guardian suit (and called Guardian, not Vindicator), just as long as Michael Pointer is never let near the suit again.

I also believe Northstar, Aurora and Madison would be a heck of a lot safer away from the "mutant massacre waiting-to-happen", that is the X-Men's Utopia. Canada doesn't lock it's mutants up, does it? No, they're just asked to join their superteams and be equal members-in-standing. Having all the mutants in one place is like painting a giant target on the area so it's visible even from orbit...It's a dumb, dumb idea.

I'd love for some older members to reappear, but not necessarily as full-time team members...Snowbird has a "divine" mission and could be a reserve member, Talisman is also on a different path and could be a reservist as well.

As for a whole new line-up...No...It's never going to work.

I don't read Alpha Flight for the name, but for the characters. If not for Heather and Puck, I would have dropped Volume 2 in an instant...Without Walter, there's no way I would have kept reading the steaming pile that was Volume 3...And if Sasquatch and Talisman were absent from Omega Flight...I would never have picked the book up.

Dana

I really agree with much of what you wrote here. Heather as the head of a new Dept H. Madison could be in a support role too and someone new could go in the Box armor.

[Mokole]

Puck as in the original, who had Razaar the immortal in him so long I figure it rubbed off.