Viable property, disrespected team, target of industry hate, cash cow...

[Alpha Rider]

You are preaching to the converted about a good writter. Did you ever read the original Squadern Superime?

AF was a top seller in the beging. So was the original GR back in the early 70's. Though what else can you do to AF right now? Byrne didn't think the chraters were intersting and 2 dimentional, and was forced to do the book. (was it Mike Magnolia, who took over after Byrne?) He didn't want to the series because he didn't grow up with these charaters. So how are you going to a good writter on this book, when you look at the first 2 artist on the first run didn't even want to do the book.

Marvel has already killed off most of the originalline up. What else can be done to AF? It was easy to give GR a revamp because he's only one guy. X-men had 4 new charaters, and 3 minnor one. I think that it took off because it was a culturly mixed team. Vol I & II were mostly all white. Vol III so many reasons why it didn't work, so let's not even talk about it. OF were established charaters that were castoffs from WCA.

I don't like the idea of ignorring the past 20-30 years of AF history, but if you keep holding on to past you are condemned to repeat it. Something has to be done to the book that will grab old and new readers, or the book will be in limbo for who knows how long.

[jay042]

I think maybe they should go back to what really worked about Byrne's run: having a team book that really isn't a team. Half the stories in the first year were solo adventures for individual characters. That really gave each character a chance to shine, and really allowed fans to connect with them. Nowadays you just can't really develop new characters that well, it's all lost in trying to build the team dynamic or building up the villains.

[Alpha Rider]

I agree that it's harder to develop new charaters these days, it's all about the bottom line. When Byrne did his run on AF He was at the top of his game at Marvel. I don't think that you'll get Marvel's top writter and artest to do AF. For the most part AF were relitivly new charaters back then, with only a handful of apperances. They somehow need that to get the non AF people on board a top writter and artest and not just some kid with caryons.

As for the Charaters themselfs, I believe I listed all the pottental people who would be still active and or interesting in the artical below, but who are you going to bring in? Marvel already killed off most of the original team. How many times does Guardian have to die only to come back. 4, 5, maybe 6 times? I know that as an AF fan, it tires me to see this happen. Plus I do agree with not to abandon the history of the book. But what else can be done? How are you going to explane to the fans of this book that the original line up is back? Was it just a dream? Were they clones that died? Or is the new team clones? What future I see for this book is a new line up of charaters. Sure I'd love to see the original team back, but Marvel has seem to have closed the door on that.

I don't want to sound like I'm down on the book or the old charaters. I'm just seeing things from my point. I would like to know how can we have our cake and eat it to? How can the original team come back, and not have the non AF peole say "Oh Guardian's back from the dead this week."

[MistressMerr]

How can the original team come back, and not have the non AF peole say "Oh Guardian's back from the dead this week."

No matter how lame it is, it's the nature of mainstream comics, sure people will roll their eyes, but they'll accept it. Just look at the New Mutants, they brought Cypher and Warlock back after YEARS just so the old team would be back together again and they already had plenty of characters to play with. There's a reason so few new characters stick around very long after their introductions, people don't like to read about them. At least not enough for them to get a chance to be properly established in today's "canceled in six issues" market.

[Alpha Rider]

But even the old charactes have had to star somewhere. I know that the market is not what it used to be, but if they give AF the royal treatment regardless of being old or new charaters. The fact that vol I failed after ten years was after Jim Lee came on board and they saw how good he is and moved him on to higher profile book, and put people who were not qualified to do a mainstream book. The book is still considered a novalty because it's a Canadian super team, and after vol III it has become a joke.

The only way this book will ever get off the ground is if it's treated like it's the king's ****. But that's not going to happen.

[Tiberius Bane]

Look at Bucky Barnes. He came back after decades of being dead. Now, he is the current Captain America!

[Alpha Rider]

But this is first resurection. But look on how they brought him back. The story was amazing that he been used by the USSR for the past 50 years. I think the real question should be not if it's the original or new charaters but how the book is done. That's been the AF albatross for since Jim Lee left the book. They have to give it 150% to the book and not just a half ass job. The one thing that really pissed me off about the book was the later artest would draw the new AF HQ in Toronto sourounded by a think pine forest and mountains. They nevered even bother to get any refrence, and I can't believe the editors of the book had let that go. That just shows you that the book was being passed over until they were losing too much money, and the novelity had worne off about heroes in Canada.

I only sugested a new line up of charaters, not because I don't like the originals, but I don't like the idea of resurecting charaters and killing them off just for the sake of doing so. "Oh, people like the original Phantom Rider, let's bring him back!" even though he's been dead for more than 150 years in Marvel timeline. If comic books were ever to be taken seriously they should stop doing this kind of crap. To me Norman Osbourn is still dead. His death was the apex of the saga of Spider Man that still haunted him for years.

[Le Messor]

The trouble I have with new line-ups is that when I get a new Alpha Flight comic, I want it to actually have Alpha Flight in it. To me, those words and a Canadian setting is not enough - not even close - to make an AF comic.

If comic books were ever to be taken seriously they should stop doing this kind of crap.

Depends on who's doing the serious-taking.

Non comics fans? I think there's far too much pandering in the comics market to people who by definition aren't the target audience. It might be easier for some of us old readers to hook new readers if comics don't rely on hokey resurrections and years of convoluted continuity - but how many old readers do comics lose when they ditch favourite characters and ignore the history of characters?

We as fans? We take them seriously enough, even with ridiculous numbers of resurrections, even when we roll our eyes at yet another one. (Jean
Grey, I'm talking to you!)

We grow attached to characters, invite them into our lives, spend time with them once a month, grow to love them, etc... Some of us don't like it when the company throws out all those years of building up and caring.
So, we want our old characters back as we know them.

- Le Messor
"Having read The Society of Mind in the smallest room in my house, I was quite happy to put it behind me."
~ Mikhail Zeleny, paraphrasing a famous book review

[Alpha Rider]

I see your point about having the old team in the book. But what got you into the book in the first place? AF only had a few apperances before they had their own book, there wasn't enough to go on to really to get to know them. Was it because they were Canadian? A new series where we could get on at the ground floor and not pick up somany back issues? Or something you'd pick up because it was another title, and grew to like the charaters? Did you like charaters like Purple Girl, Laura Dean, and Mankind when they joined the team?

[Le Messor]

I got into it because when I was a kid somebody let me read their copies of the issues. Then my school library had a few. I really, really enjoyed them.

I liked Purple Girl, Pathway, and Mannikin, but not as much as the originals. And I'm in a minority for liking them at all.

The things that made me enjoy it so much were focus on character, tone, depth, art-style, the iconic look...

I'm not saying it's unpossible to do an AF book I'd enjoy without the characters I grew to love (I liked Omega Flight, for one thing); just that I'd rather have the characters I loved, doing the things I loved them doing, acting how they did when I loved them.

Am I making sense?
If so, somebody stop me!

- Le Messor
"Having been erased,
The document you're seeking
Must now be retyped."
- 'Microsoft haikku'

[Alpha Rider]

The point I'm trying to make is that they had to start somewhere. All the charaters had to start from somewhere. You didn't care how old or new the charaters were, you just liked them. I'd like to see the original line up as well, but given the way comic book charaters seem to come back from the dead, it takes away from the inital impact of their demise, to only have someone say: "He'll be back sometime soon". Sure it would nice to see them in action, but it wouldn't be the same. Maybe these charaters have ran there course as far as developing them? A friend of mine would not watch Star Trek TNG because Captain Kirk and the others were not in it. He started to watch some of the show in reruns about 10 years ago, and it didn't take him too long before he really got into it and couldn't get enough of it. The same with DS9, and Voyager.

Of course I'm conpairing real live actors to drawn fictional charaters, but I believe the premise is still the same. How many times can you beat a dead horse? Mac didn't want the roll, but put himself into it. Heater wanted to pull her own on the team. Mac II was made for the roll and wasn't given a choice. Pointer was forced into it. There is a bit of a trend going on here, the Guardian suit was pushed on to everyone who wore it. Do something different. Make someone earn it.

[Le Messor]

Well, as I said before, they could do an Alpha book with all-new characters, and I'd enjoy it.
My sub-point, though, is that if they're going to do an Alpha Flight book, I want Alpha Flight to be in it. If they want to do a book with all-new characters, why not do an all-new book?

Sean Benard... No, come to think of it, they pushed it on him, too. (And then it was the Groundhog, not the Guardian.) That's a very good, very insightful point. I'd never thought of it.

- Le Messor
"He absorbed Latin in two hours yesterday! It took me a whole year just to learn the alphabet."
~ Brett Leonard & Gimel Everett, screenplay for The Lawnmower Man

[Alpha Rider]

If AF was an individual, then yes do a new book. AF is a team, a collective of individuals who come and go. Think of it like a hockey team. Players come and go and sometimes return. I'd would like to see Purple Girl come back (I'm also with you on this, that I do like the Charater) as part of the new team, but after the newbies have been given sometime to shine on their own. Avengers have there core, but even that didn't last for ever. Teams are always in a state of flux, so why not change it up. This is why I don't like the X-Men make me sick, they are all there. #94 saw the old guys go, and the new ones come in, they should have done it again in #194 and so forth. Change the team up, it's a school. They graduate and move on. To me Wolverine is a guy who just hangs out at the school even after he graduated years ago.

"I've thrown away my images, they're all so distant now. Whatever demons torture me, I love them like a friend. Nothing lasts forever but the certainty of change." Bruce Dickinson: Innerspace/ Skunkworks 1996

[marvelboy74]

There are enough Alpha characters that they could relaunch the team. Not only Liz and Walt, but bring back Madison and JP from the X-Men, and you still have Jeanne-Marie, Kara, Kyle and possibly Flashback out there. New characters could be introduced too. Sad part is that Marvel doesn't want to create a place for them, instead now pumping out nearly as many Avenger books as X-books. Then again, Captain Britain & MI 13 flopped as well and they went with a more mystical avenue that Alpha always had.

[Alpha Rider]

From one newbie to another, I bid thy...welcome.

I though of that as well that there were the others that didn't go on that mission. But as they said in OF the others were underqualified, not interested or just moved on. Most of the remaining AFers were not very popular and I don't think they'd be very successful in starting up the series again. AF suffer the same symptons as Excalibur, they are a novelty, heros in Canada, heros in England, when the novelty wears off they axe it.