Viable property, disrespected team, target of industry hate, cash cow...

[Alpha Rider]

I guess Mantlo was the first of the Seven Deadly Sins, then came the others that just killed of AF.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I may have said this before...But as much as I love Bill's work on Micronauts, Rom, etc...I hated what he did in Alpha Flight. IMHO, He shot Alpha Flight in the kneecaps, stabbed them in the heart and then lopped off their heads...He certainly destroyed Puck's origin and nearly ruined the twins...Making them elves was minor compared to him wanting to write Northstar as having AIDS, thank the gods editorial stopped him from doing it. Mantlo also had Heather kill Snowbird, he had Bochs go insane and killed him off as well. I don't fault him for the emotional mess between Talisman and Shaman, as that was left brewing when Byrne left the book...However, having Shaman so casually just put on the Talisman's circlet of power was insanely stupid....He shouldn't have been able to, it wasn't meant for him to wear...Only Elizabeth or her ancestors would be worthy...It was obvious, That Mr Mantlo either didn't research these characters or he didn't give a crap what he did with them.

I understand he may have wanted to use his own characters in a book (Persuasion, Manikin, Goblyn or whoever else), but why did he have to choose Alpha Flight to do it in (destroying what was there to make room for his own creations). If he didn't want to use the established characters in Alpha Flight, then he never should have agreed to trade books with Byrne...Marvel should have chosen somebody else to take the book over, when John wanted to leave.

Dana

[DIGGER]

You are preachin to the choir Dana!

Digger

[Le Messor]

Yeah!
'cept the bit about Talisman's ancestors... I think you mean the previous Talismi?
'coz her father would be an ancestor. Technic'ly.

- Le Messor
"He taught us drawing, stretching, and fainting in coils."

[Flightpath07]

I just think Mantlo was brilliant, because he kept them fairly mysterious and "WEIRD". In my mind, Alpha Flight = superhero weirdness. In a cool way, don't get me wrong.

I agree. Being mysterious is a good thing for any future Flight. You never want to reveal all the secrets, but keep people guessing - that is what drives interest, and sales. It is what Volume 2 tried to do - whether it failed because the plug got pulled too early on it is a moot point, but still one that can be pondered in hindsight.

[Flightpath07]

The point I'm trying to make is that they had to start somewhere. All the charaters had to start from somewhere. You didn't care how old or new the charaters were, you just liked them. I'd like to see the original line up as well, but given the way comic book charaters seem to come back from the dead, it takes away from the inital impact of their demise, to only have someone say: "He'll be back sometime soon". Sure it would nice to see them in action, but it wouldn't be the same. Maybe these charaters have ran there course as far as developing them? A friend of mine would not watch Star Trek TNG because Captain Kirk and the others were not in it. He started to watch some of the show in reruns about 10 years ago, and it didn't take him too long before he really got into it and couldn't get enough of it. The same with DS9, and Voyager.

Of course I'm conpairing real live actors to drawn fictional charaters, but I believe the premise is still the same. How many times can you beat a dead horse? Mac didn't want the roll, but put himself into it. Heater wanted to pull her own on the team. Mac II was made for the roll and wasn't given a choice. Pointer was forced into it. There is a bit of a trend going on here, the Guardian suit was pushed on to everyone who wore it. Do something different. Make someone earn it.

"How many times can you beat a dead horse?"

Thunder joke, anyone?

[Flightpath07]

"Kyle? Oh, you didn't get the memo... Kyle was killed by Omega Red, not available for the team."

Nobody stays dead in the comics...

[cmdrkoenig67]

Yeah!
'cept the bit about Talisman's ancestors... I think you mean the previous Talismi?
'coz her father would be an ancestor. Technic'ly.

- Le Messor
"He taught us drawing, stretching, and fainting in coils."

Whoops...Sorry Mik...I meant her future descendants, not ancestors...Since the line skipped Michael, I'm guessing either Elizabeth's children or grandchildren would also be worthy of the circlet. I apologize for choosing the wrong word (I really have no idea how I screwed that up).

Dana

[Le Messor]

Meh. Just so we understand now.

- Le Messor
"He who hesitates is sometimes saved."

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Not even Bill Mantlo?

- Le Messor
"He laughed at every joke three times - when he heard it, when it was explained to him, and when he understood it."

I guess I should've said "...just one person..."

The 1st year helped tie Alpha Flight more closely to the Marvel universe, but the character assassination also began. Year 2 (#s 40 through 51) got rid of most of the Byrne characters in the most d(e)spicable manner I've ever read. The series should've been put on hiatus if this was the best that Marvel was going to do with them. Although I consider it the Mantlo era because the writer gets credit for the direction of a series and its tone, how can anyone blame the writer for publishing a book and/or pages out of sequence [Northstar references a kiss by Pestilence (in #43) that happens in the following issue (in # 44)]?

[Le Messor]

How can anyone blame the writer for publishing a book and/or pages out of sequence [Northstar references a kiss by Pestilence (in #43) that happens in the following issue (in # 44)]?

It's possible, however unlikely, that he wrote it that way - but you're probably right, it was most likely a careless error. (Careless as in, they just didn't care.)

- Le Messor
"He who is flogged by fate and laughs the louder is a masochist."