A Reason For Alpha Flight

[Flightpath07]

There has been plenty of talk on this site lately (actually, for the last few years) that revolves around various discussions about what reason can we come up with for having an Alpha Flight team again, a reason that would be good enough to (a) cause Marvel to believe it would sell as a series, and (b) make sense in that Marvel seems to feel that previous AFs have lost readers due to something new being needed.

Many people here have suggested ideas. Some new ideas, some not-so-new.

Many of us believed that John Byrne had it right, or did it best, when it comes to AF. So, many times suggestions came up in regards to how JB wrote AF in the beginning, how they were a team made up of individuals who did not always get along, and showing that individual stories could be told in a team book.

There has also been talk about how AF needs to interact with the Marvel U on a regular basis, to attract attention and fans and keep them relevant.

And most people here agree that one of the things that makes AF Alpha Flight-y is that they are Canadians as opposed to Americans (who seem to have the vast majority of the superheroes).

Well, here is my idea...

Take John Byrne's original idea. Modernize it, and you have got an AF that is bold, exciting, and will sell.

By this, I mean that Alpha Flight should be a group of Canadian superheroes, working for the Canadian government, with two mandates; (a) protection of Canada from super-powered baddies, and (b) to bring in all of the Canadian government employees with super-powers who are working illegally in America. In other words, they have a mandate to bring back to Canada such people as Northstar, Aurora, and Wolverine, at any and all costs.

This, as you can imagine, means that AF will be a superhero team based in Canada, who, besides fighting bad guys and gals within their own borders, will quite often be throwing-down with recognizable superheroes and super-teams in the US of A. They may be good guys, but when they get a sniff of one of their own who have left to fight evil in the US, they spring into cross-border-action and try their damnest to capture and retrieve said persons.

Welcome to a great many great battles with superheroes! Welcome to a great many guest appearances in other titles! Welcome to sales!

Welcome back, Alpha Flight?

[Raja]

That is an extremely sensible approach. One that would work....but the problem comes down to this; Who would buy a superhero book about Canadians? Who would care about it? In the mind of Marvel as a company, they likely assume Alpha Flight has no market. People have to be encouraged to care about these characters, as you said, by exposure to them, but IMO it needs to be about the individual characters first, so people don't go "Oh that Canadian team, who cares?" The nationality in most cases should come later. It shouldn't matter at all, but it does.

[Mokole]

How about all the interactions such a proposal that bring with international teams? Big Hero Six, the Winter Guard, American teams; not a "World Tour" but working with and against teams around the world to do what's right; fight SHIELD about Apocalypse's safe houses; work with the Winter Guard against the Great Beasts; work with Big Hero Six against Kang's followers; work with the Avengers against the Badoon; destroy a time-travel device and tick off the Avengers,.....

[Flightpath07]

Mokole, you have picked up the spirit of the thing!

[AKexpress]

Hello There. Glad to see the site back up! Thought I'd stop lurking and join the other AF die-hards in the world.

I would LOVE to see an Alpha Flight title on the shelves, but it would be a miracle, I think. If it was up to me I'd call it something other than Alpha Flight in the beginning. That sounds preposterous, but I think if you brought Talisman, Sasquatch, Jeffries together, and then added Marrina (back from the supposed dead), Snowbird and Wolverine in subsequent story arcs, you'd have something with good traction. Wolvie's alittle overused, and often more a marketing angle, but he truly does fit with that group of friends... at least for couple of adventures.

Add a few new members to boost the dynamic: Beta Ray Bill is a fav of mine (not to mention a true MU powerhouse). Another character I'd campaign hard for is a woman named Linnea. She's been in one comic book, Avengers 212 way, way back in the 80's, and she could be a hidden gem, both for her abilities and personality.

Lifelong friends coming together, dealing with the grief and survivor's guilt, reaffirming their desire to guard their home from evil forces, would be my angle in resurrecting AF. Then, I'd have the Canadian Government decide to create "Alpha Flight", with 5 or 6 completely new (and hopefully compelling characters). I would have Liz and crew actually LIKE the Alphans, with Walt and Madi doing some consulting work. Then you could have crossovers, but the two teams would have different feels and different M.O.s.

One of the problems Alpha Flight has had is it's always been "that Canadian Team". The World Tour didn't even come close to changing that, in fact, in my opinion, it made it worse. I'd have them just simply BE a powerful group of heroes and I'd establish that by having adventures offworld (in space and in other dimensions)... and I'd have them win... alot.

The Avengers have operated out of NYC but they don't have such a confined impression. Any relaunch of AF, or spinoffs, should follow that model, as far as I'm concerned.

In any case, thanks for letting me ramble!

AK

[cmdrkoenig67]

I truthfully don't see a problem with Alpha Flight being "That Canadian team"...I think only Marvel editorial has that prejudice, fans don't seem to care as long as the stories and art are good. Do comic-readers get hung up on the fact that most of the Excalibur team is British? Do fans get bent out of shape by the Winter Guard being from Russia or do they just enjoy seeing them make an appearance now and then?

I don't get why Marvel sees Alpha Flight being "That Canadian team" as such a series-killer...It's Marvel itself whom is to blame for every volumes' failure or cancellation. Why the constant need to reinvent the wheel?

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

If we're talking of rebuilding Alpha Flight from the ground up, IMHO it won't work without a few familiar faces (original/original-ish surviving members, Like Sassy, Talisman, Snowbird, Aurora and/or Northstar)...They don't all have to be used as active team members, either (Elizabeth, Narya, Madison, etc...One or more could be possibly only be reserve members, etc.)...

There is also a wealth of other Canadian/Canadian-ish characters introduced in various volumes of AF (including the now Canadian Beta Ray Bill) and in other Marvel books that could be mined for membership or guest appearances....

There could always be another Nemesis (although, maybe not right now with a Marvel series titled that)
Deadpool (yeah, I know...Nobody wants him on their team...LOL!)
Albert (genius Wolverine robot) and Elsie Dee (who were dwelling in Canada for quite a while)
X-23 (sort-of Canadian, by way of her clone-daddy?)
Jack Frost (sort of dwelling in Canada, but not by his choice...Unless of course, he really was born in the Canadian arctic)
Maverick (not Canadian, but spent a lot of time there as a member of the Weapon X program and visited during Wolverine's and his own series)
Night Raven (Canadian vigilante, may be dead?)
Weapon: P.R.I.M.E. (even though, I hate them...Bleh)

Even some of the most obscure...

The Living Totem (Doc Samsom mini)
Lynx (intro-ed in Marvel Comics Presents, volume 1/1983)
Avery Connor (Elektra and Wolverine: The Redeemer mini)

Etc...
Etc...

[AKexpress]

Dana: "I don't get why Marvel sees Alpha Flight being "That Canadian team" as such a series-killer...It's Marvel itself whom is to blame for every volumes' failure or cancellation. Why the constant need to reinvent the wheel?"

Well, it's not fair, but Alpha Flight has the stigma of Box Office Poison. Not to us, but to casual Marvel Universe readers. In my opinion, the first step in getting it back up and running is recognizing that.

How is it Marvel's fault, when volume 1 lasted 130+ issues counting Annuals/Specials, and the title was then relaunched 2 more times?

Compare AF to the Avengers. Some of the worst comics I've ever read have been certain Avengers arcs... the writing was flat, the art was bland, the characters weren't interesting. But the Avengers don't have that "flop" stigma because it's also produced, by far, some of the best work I've ever seen (same pattern with the X-Men and Fantastic Four). Alpha Flight has had both ends of the spectrum, as well, but it IS seen more negatively. Why? I think it's because it's made ITSELF that sad sack underdog. "We're C-League but we're lovable because we have a unique niche, being 'that Canadian team'. "

The Avengers market themselves as "Earth's Mightiest Heroes", and don't think twice about going toe to toe with Galactus. Alpha Flight, on the otherhand, always seemed relieved just being mentioned by the MU upperclassmen.

So, if Alpha Flight is EVER going to resurface, it has to completely ignore certain elements in order to erase the stigma. As a fan, realize that you have to make compromises. Let the wheel be reinvented, otherwise, keep lamenting, year after year, that Alpha Flight is dead.

Regards,
AK

[AKexpress]

Dana: "I truthfully don't see a problem with Alpha Flight being "That Canadian team"...I think only Marvel editorial has that prejudice, fans don't seem to care as long as the stories and art are good. Do comic-readers get hung up on the fact that most of the Excalibur team is British? Do fans get bent out of shape by the Winter Guard being from Russia or do they just enjoy seeing them make an appearance now and then?"

I think the problem with being "that Canadian team" is they seemed to have CONFINED themselves to that corner. If done right, they'd be more diverse and wide reaching in their setting, story to story. If they have to go to JUPITER to stop a threat to Earth then off they go.

We can have the best of both worlds. Were they to establish themselves as Canadian based yet far ranging, then the casual reader might be more open-minded... while at the same time the characters of the Marvel Universe would know that to venture into Canada puts them on well guarded turf. Because, as far as I'm concerned, it's not how strictly the enforcers stay in their neighborhood that worries me, it's being caught there when they get back from whatever butt-stomping they've done elsewhere.

AK

[Duane V]

That is an extremely sensible approach. One that would work....but the problem comes down to this; Who would buy a superhero book about Canadians? Who would care about it? In the mind of Marvel as a company, they likely assume Alpha Flight has no market. People have to be encouraged to care about these characters, as you said, by exposure to them, but IMO it needs to be about the individual characters first, so people don't go "Oh that Canadian team, who cares?" The nationality in most cases should come later. It shouldn't matter at all, but it does.

People bought John Byrne's version. I say, bring him back. He knows the characters intimately, he's known for (ahem) retro - fitting Classic characters from both Marvel and DC, and he'd do a great job, simply because he loves the Marvel Universe. I know for a fact that the problem isn't the characters, it's a simple matter of uninspired writing. The writer needs to love the characters as much as the fans at this website. That should be the Only pre requisite for handling the characters..

[Powersurge]

As I recently mentioned in another thread, there has over the past couple of years an window of oppurtunity to make Alpha Flight relevent by making Canada relevent within the context and wake of Civil War. Here it would have been Canada -- which has long had it's own SHRA and was morally opposed to the U.S.'s implamentation of it's own -- acting as a safehaven for anti-reg'ers, and having to deal with SHRA enforcers ... kind of a reversal of the classic Alpha Flight-Wolverine formula. This moral stance would of course have require the formation of a new Alpha Flight, and probably the reinstitution of the Gamma and Beat programs. There would have been plenty of Yank heroes to draw from to act as PR support for the early team, and lots of established heroes/villains for AF to establish it's cred against. And with all of this having led up to Siege, well, by the end of it Canada would either be the 51st State or have it's own cred well established, along with that of it's heroes.

As for the "international concept"; I like the idea not so much as the theme for an Alpha Flight title, but as the theme for an ongoing title, "Marvel International" or something, which would have a rotating spolight on different international Marvel hero-teams and maybe even solo heroes. Not one of those comics where there are five stories going on in any single issue, 'cause they suck and for one can't be bothered with them. Or even single issue stories. They might be, but they might also be multi-issue stories, but ulitmately, after say 4 issues max, the spolight would shift over onto some other team ... and undoubtedly eventually make it's way back to our favourite.

[Flightpath07]

I am thinking a bad-arse Alpha squad. Regardless of who you want on it, I am thinking of one that takes no prisoners and only asks questions after they kick butt.
Wild Child, of course, would be a great team member, with his ferocious savagery (time to bring him back from the dead!). Talisman would also be good, very powerful.

In this version of AF, think US Agent rather than Captain America, or think Thunderbolts rather than Avengers. Big, bad, powerful, and totally committed to doing what their government asks of them. One part Alpha Flight, one part Ultimate Alpha Flight.

[Dfense75]

IMHO I like everything except Alpha Flight hunting down other Canadian heroes for their government. Hunting down heroes who are Canadian "property" seems very un-heroic. I know its that very premise that introduced the team. But they where designed to be a X-Men foil. In the Alpha series we saw them evolve from that idea. Doesn't Northstar, Aurora, and Wolverine have every rite to work and live where they want. I don't know if dual citizenship was ever addressed for the 3 just mentioned. But if they moved their legally what grounds would Canada have. I love the international approach to the book. But it just doesn't sit well with me if my heroes blindly follow what their handlers tell them to do. If following these orders was a source of contention for the team than it could work for me.

[suzene]

IMHO I like everything except Alpha Flight hunting down other Canadian heroes for their government. Hunting down heroes who are Canadian "property" seems very un-heroic. I know its that very premise that introduced the team. But they where designed to be a X-Men foil. In the Alpha series we saw them evolve from that idea. Doesn't Northstar, Aurora, and Wolverine have every rite to work and live where they want. I don't know if dual citizenship was ever addressed for the 3 just mentioned. But if they moved their legally what grounds would Canada have. I love the international approach to the book. But it just doesn't sit well with me if my heroes blindly follow what their handlers tell them to do. If following these orders was a source of contention for the team than it could work for me.

I think Aurora's working in Canada with Kyle now anyway, but agreed on the dislike of previous Alpha Flight members being hunted down by a new roster. It's a bit too Dark Reign: Canada for my tastes. I also agree with Flightpath's two major points: the team needs to be Canadian while also maintaining a position of some relevance within the Marvel Universe -- you can't just park them in Canada, deal with events that only affect Canada, and expect most of the audience to give a hoot just because they used hang out with Wolverine.

If there was an Alpha Flight relaunch, something I'd like to see avoided is the "All New, All Different Alpha Flight" take. A team that was half comprised of new characters didn't translate to sales under Seagle. A team that was almost entirely newbies did even worse for Lobdell. Alpha Flight does not have so large a fanbase that any book bearing the title can afford to be "A Bunch Of Guys You've Never Heard Of, Guest-Starring Alpha Flight" and hope that people warm up to the new cast.

What would likely work best for an Alpha Flight book in terms of generating interest would be to get the band (or what's left of it) back together -- to go heavy on the old guard to get as many of the hardcore Alphans and X-Fans as possible interested. Sasquatch, Box, the Beaubier twins, Snowbird, and Talisman make up a good starting roster, Mar could possibly have grown into something useful and has ties to Atlantis, and if the writer's feeling exceptionally generous, Earthmover could be used as something other than a joke. There's a good mix of interpersonal tension there -- things should not be smooth between Talisman and Earthmover, especially if Elizabeth is put in the position of having to pick up where her father left off in mentoring him, everyone would just be waiting for Plodex Jr. to go evil, and Box and Snowbird have both recently lost people they're close to, but while Madison is grieving the death of his wife and lost opportunities, Narya is rediscovering the joys of mortal life. There's even something of an inversion of the old Sasquatch/Aurora/Northstar triangle to be played with, as the twins are getting along well nowadays while Sasquatch is just the ex-flame, failed scientist and team-leader, and generally the odd man out.

As for what the premise would be, I'd say aim high. The joke about MU Canada has always been that, between Dept.H and Weapon X, snowy, benevolent Canada has the most evil government ever. So have a new department come in and get the old team together specifically with the goal of taking on these shadowy, clandestine weaponization projects that keep sprouting up. They're Canada's mess and Canada is going to clean it up, by God! It fits in with the theme of Marvel's upcoming Heroic Age, there's a variety of stories that could be told within that overarching arc with room for guest-stars and team-ups, and even the possibility of getting outside of Canada, depending on where the antagonists have their hooks. More importantly, it pits the team up against a legitimate threat that the majority of the readers are familiar with and, in doing so, refutes the idea that Alpha Flight is best treated as a joke team.

[Flightpath07]

"If following these orders was a source of contention for the team than it could work for me. "

I could agree wityh at least some of the members of the team not always liking what they are asked to do. Mainly, this is a way to have them interact with the Marvel Universe as a whole. But the AF I am envisioning is more like the ones that originally showed up in X-Men, fighting heroes for control of Wolverine. Now, you have an AF that not only fights baddies, but heroes as well. This reminds me of the Avengers/Defenders wars of the 70s/80s. It used to be, that heroes did not always see eye to eye, so they fought. Much the same thing going on here.