It's time for a new Flight

[Mokole]

Okay...I know many of us would like to see the original line-up for Alpha Flight in a relaunch (or something very close to that)...But Omega Flight sold very, very well...

Perhaps a more Avenger-ish team roster would work better in the long run (just under the Alpha Flight name)?

*A Guardian (Not Pointer please!...Plus a Guardian would totally take the place of a "Captain America" or Cap copy)

*Aurora (there should be at least one mutant on the team)

*Beta Ray Bill (He's now technically Canadian...He can still have cosmic adventures and be a member of the team...Thor does, why not Bill too?)

*Jack Frost (mysterious WWII hero trapped in the Arctic ice)

*Sasquatch

*Talisman

Weapon Alpha (Albert...Robotic duplicate of Wolverine with a genius intellect)

Snowbird could be a reserve member.

Maybe Arachne, if she's still in Canada by the time the series is put together.

I'm not sure of any other possible folks who might fit an "Avengers" sort of line-up.

Dana

I agree with a good Canadian Guardian (Radius, Feedback, best able to fill the role now). Aurora, Sasquatch, Talisman make for good dynamics. Arachne too.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Since Earthmover came way after I stopped collecting, I have a question--is he a Sarcee/Blackfoot Indian or is he caucasian?

I don't think Alpha Flight as a Canadian version of the Avengers is a good idea. Byrne managed to give AF elements of the X-Men, the Avengers, and the Fantastic Four without aping any of them. I'd like to see THAT type of Alpha Flight. I'm sure someone could find a way to write the core characters back into continuity.

To me AF isn't AF without Heather Hudson. Whether written by Byrne, Mantlo, or Hudnall--Heather is the heart and soul of Alpha Flight.

Peace,
Zef

Zef...No offense intended, but I love you! I really miss Heather too...She was awesome, whether she was in costume or a civilian...Great character. Marvel should be ashamed for killing her off (especially leaving her baby parentless).

I'd love to see Heather either be leader behind the scenes or as leader in the Guardian suit.

Dana

[Wildcard]

I liked Heather as well. She is a strong, positive female character in a leadership role. Not many high profile teams had a female leader at the time or even now.

I liked how Alpha Flight was almost as diverse as Canada itself although Im pretty sure Marvel didnt plan for that.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Continuity is going to be the biggest problem anyone has to face if or when MARVEL decides to publish another ALPHA FLIGHT book. A lot of the ideas put forth here deserve to be considered (and recognized, if used), 'though I'm not sure what MARVEL's motivation for publishing AF was/is/will be, anymore. Saying that volumes 2, 3, and Omega Flight were done for the fans still leaves me with a sick, sick feeling.

When AF was new and the stories were being written from "whole cloth,"
there wasn't much history to hold them back. Now, there is. Adherents to
continuity will try to make everything fit, whether it deserves to or not. I can't reconcile all the variations and different interpretations of AF over the 25+ years, but I wish whoever tries to combine Byrne-Mantlo-Seagle-Lobdell-Omeing into a cohesive whole the best of luck.

Going in a different, smaller, more focused direction, re-introducing original AF now, as FlightPath mentioned I believe, now that MARVEL has successfully destroyed the team and the comic, might be the re-set that brings the group back.

I really would like to see (and read) another good Alpha Flight story before too long.

[Flightpath07]

"I really would like to see (and read) another good Alpha Flight story before too long."

Well, on a good note, you have to believe that Mravel thinks there are some good characters from Flight. Madison Jeffries and Northstar are being used (if not all that well) in X comics. Aurora recently popped up, and actually got the better of Madman Norman. Snowbird seemed pretty successful in Incredible Hercules a while back, and now is getting her own digital story. These are all good signs. Marvel has not completely shut out all AF characters.

That being said, it seems like it is the team concept for these (and other) characters from AF that they do not approved of.

But remember, even the Avengers had to be "Disassembled" before they came back strong again.

Only difference is, nobody killed off all the Avengers, then constantly mocked their fans.

[zephyr74]

Thanks, Legerd. Earthmover as an aboriginal makes sense.

Dana,
No offense taken. I know from your other posts that you're also a big fan of Heather's. I don't know about Jack Frost as a member...but he could provide an interesting story.

Wildcard,
I hadn't thought about what a great role-model Heather was! You're absolutely right--she was smart, pretty, and resourceful. She was never depicted dressed like a tramp.

Marvel didn't plan that but Byrne did. In the Alpha Flight Classic TPB, they reprint his interview from Marvel Age Magazine. John Byrne stated that he wanted the team to be diverse and to also represent the different provinces, which they did.

Garry & FP,
There's no doubt that it's a continuity nightmare but a writer who has a passion for the team can make it work.

I can take or leave James Hudson (personally, I think the incessant rising from the dead is ridiculous) but Heather MUST be present in Alpha Flight.

-Zef

[rplass]

Marvel didn't plan that but Byrne did. In the Alpha Flight Classic TPB, they reprint his interview from Marvel Age Magazine. John Byrne stated that he wanted the team to be diverse and to also represent the different provinces, which they did.

Funny that you mention it! A few years back, I posted that very interview in its entirety. Read it all here:

Text of Marvel Age #2 interview with John Byrne

Love,
rplass

[Flightpath07]

"Read it all here:"

Thanx, rplass, great link!

[Wildcard]

Marvel didn't plan that but Byrne did. In the Alpha Flight Classic TPB, they reprint his interview from Marvel Age Magazine. John Byrne stated that he wanted the team to be diverse and to also represent the different provinces, which they did.

Huh, Ive never read that interview before. I stand corrected. Byrne really put a lot of thought into the characters. He did sound passionate about them.

Also interesting to me was how Byrne wanted AF to be a "mission-Impossible" sort of team, chosen based on missions. I believe I posted something similar earlier in this thread but called it a Justice League Unlimited style. Mission Impossible does sound better

[Le Messor]

The other thing with that Mission Impossible format is, that could be the hook people are looking for -- those who say 'AF is just the Avengers... in Canada! What's so cool about that?'

- Le Messor
"Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better."
- Albert Camus

[cmdrkoenig67]

Garry,

I don't see various versions of Alpha/Omega Flight being the problem...It's individual character histories that are the biggest pains for both writers and readers (Puck's origin for one, Mac's various deaths and resurrections another...Mantlo's "the twins are really elves" shtick was cleared up, so we don't have to worry about that one). The Avengers have had various incarnations/Line-ups and that doesn't stop them from continuing.

The best thing to do where bad continuity is concerned (IMHO)...Is to ignore it where possible.

Dana

Continuity is going to be the biggest problem anyone has to face if or when MARVEL decides to publish another ALPHA FLIGHT book. A lot of the ideas put forth here deserve to be considered (and recognized, if used), 'though I'm not sure what MARVEL's motivation for publishing AF was/is/will be, anymore. Saying that volumes 2, 3, and Omega Flight were done for the fans still leaves me with a sick, sick feeling.

When AF was new and the stories were being written from "whole cloth,"
there wasn't much history to hold them back. Now, there is. Adherents to
continuity will try to make everything fit, whether it deserves to or not. I can't reconcile all the variations and different interpretations of AF over the 25+ years, but I wish whoever tries to combine Byrne-Mantlo-Seagle-Lobdell-Omeing into a cohesive whole the best of luck.

Going in a different, smaller, more focused direction, re-introducing original AF now, as FlightPath mentioned I believe, now that MARVEL has successfully destroyed the team and the comic, might be the re-set that brings the group back.

I really would like to see (and read) another good Alpha Flight story before too long.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

[quote="cmdrkoenig67"]Garry,

I don't see various versions of Alpha/Omega Flight being the problem...It's individual character histories that are the biggest pains for both writers and readers (Puck's origin for one, Mac's various deaths and resurrections another...Mantlo's "the twins are really elves" shtick was cleared up, so we don't have to worry about that one).

...The best thing to do where bad continuity is concerned (IMHO)...Is to ignore it where possible.

Dana

Although I think that it's the individual character histories that make up much of the continuity, I agree that ignoring the bad continuity, where possible, is a reasonable solution.

(1) Judd and Jean-Paul should have met/known doctors they trusted enough to go to before concluding that Lionel Jeffries was there only hope.
[Doc Sampson]
(2) Elizabeth should not have been able to take off the Coronet of Enchantment, therefore, Michael should not have been able to assume the role of "Talisman". [AF, vol. 1, #s 18 and 19]
(3) The Coronet heightened Elizabeth's resentment [a character trait that is established and plausable], but turns Michael into an aloof, uncaring shell of a man incapable of making important decisions [this is the opposite of what was established as a doctor or as a shaman].
(4) Most of Alpha Flight would have to not even know the basic code for a doctor is to "first, do no harm". There is no way that any of them would be so (sorry) stupid to entrust their lives to a man who turned a hospital full of doctors, nurses, and patients (and Heather) into deformed monsters.
(5) Roger and Madison were in a Clinic for Maladjusted Superfolk? WTF?

This is just the start of my list of things that should be forgotten, forever.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Garry,

I don't see various versions of Alpha/Omega Flight being the problem...It's individual character histories that are the biggest pains for both writers and readers (Puck's origin for one, Mac's various deaths and resurrections another...Mantlo's "the twins are really elves" shtick was cleared up, so we don't have to worry about that one).

...The best thing to do where bad continuity is concerned (IMHO)...Is to ignore it where possible.

Dana

Although I think that it's the individual character histories that make up much of the continuity, I agree that ignoring the bad continuity, where possible, is a reasonable solution.

(1) Judd and Jean-Paul should have met/known doctors they trusted enough to go to before concluding that Lionel Jeffries was there only hope.
[Doc Sampson]
(2) Elizabeth should not have been able to take off the Coronet of Enchantment, therefore, Michael should not have been able to assume the role of "Talisman". [AF, vol. 1, #s 18 and 19]

I don't recall if Byrne ever indicated that Elizabeth could "never" remove the coronet (just that it would be absolute agony to do so)?

(3) The Coronet heightened Elizabeth's resentment [a character trait that is established and plausable], but turns Michael into an aloof, uncaring shell of a man incapable of making important decisions [this is the opposite of what was established as a doctor or as a shaman].
(4) Most of Alpha Flight would have to not even know the basic code for a doctor is to "first, do no harm". There is no way that any of them would be so (sorry) stupid to entrust their lives to a man who turned a hospital full of doctors, nurses, and patients (and Heather) into deformed monsters.

Too true...Especially Heather (whom he first "molested") should have said "No freaking way!".

(5) Roger and Madison were in a Clinic for Maladjusted Superfolk? WTF?

Right...I believe John Byrne indicated that Madison and Roger didn't really know each other when they met in his run. Bill Mantlo contradicted this when he took over...I could be recalling this incorrectly, but didn't Mantlo write that Puck was at this clinic too?

This is just the start of my list of things that should be forgotten, forever.

Amen.

Dana

[zephyr74]

I hated when Shaman became Talisman during the Pestilence storyline.

Never read those issues but it sound like the last incarnation of Nemesis went against the existing mythology of the character.

[rplass]

(5) Roger and Madison were in a Clinic for Maladjusted Superfolk? WTF?

It was 'The Clinic for Socially Maladjusted Super-Beings' and I'm pretty sure that was a sarcastic name for Dept H's Beta and Gamma Flights that Puck was tossing around in his head , not an actual clinic.

The scene:

In Alpha Flight #46, Sasquatch and Box are struggling with each other after Box has gone crazy.

Sasquatch: "We're still your friends, let us help you!"

Box: "By choosing to defend Aurora, you reject me!"

Sasquatch: "You're crazy--!"

Box: "That's what they always said! But I'll show the world they were wrong!"

Sasquatch: "Huh? Who's they??"

Puck then catches Aurora, who has also gone all crazy, after Box tosses her down the stairs.

Puck says to himself: "You don't know, Sasquatch - - you couldn't! You were inducted straight into Alpha Flight, not Beta... and thus passed over the Clinic for Socially Maladjusted Super-Beings where I, and Mr. Jeffries and Box - - were tested! We graduated to Alpha when we were presumably 'Cured!' It appears that some of us merely learned to disguise our maladies!"

So I don't think it was an actual place, just a bit of sniping from Puck about the tier system at Dept H and some of the wonderful characters there (the smarmy and self-absorbed Smart Alec, the unpredictable and violent Wild Child, etc.) Technically, he should have said "not Beta nor Gamma..." instead of just "not Beta..." because Mr. Jeffries was never in Beta Flight. But, it's just a thought bubble where trailing sentences like that don't really count.

Love,
rplass