It's time for a new Flight

[Flightpath07]

the light vs dark contrast

Now there is something I had not thought of...

Thanks for the kind words! Unfortunately, it is just my thoughts, I have no plans to pitch my idea or write the new series. However, if I can come up with some semi-plausible ideas, that just goes to show that anybody can. Heck, even Volumes 2 and 3 had some good ideas in them, just not enough or not the right ones. Surely somebody out there who desperately wants to write this series believes in it enough to put something together that will work and work well, and then will pound on the doors of Marvel executives each and every month/week/day until they give in!

[cmdrkoenig67]

Nothing to see here, move along...

Dana

[Flightpath07]

Seriously folks...If you really want Alpha back, then make yourselves heard...Actually doing something is better than just griping...

http://marvel.com/boards/viewtopic.p...8826&start=240

http://newsarama.com/common/forums/v...flight#p251853


...Or write to JoeQ and/or Marvel (the email I have for JoeQ is below, I don't know how current it is)...

JOEYDAQ@aol.com

make a noise people...

Dana

This comes back to a "respect" issue for me.

Firstly, because in spite of what Marvel has told us, there CANNOT be enough fan support to make Marvel put out a series, until MARVEL starts to hype the characters. If they want a wave of support that is bigger than our little community/family, then they have to CREATE it. They know this. They are in the media business, they know how to do this, they know how the game works. You can sell anything to anybody, as long as you make them think you want and need it; if you haven't worked at that, don't even bother trying to sell it - that is a law of marketing (or ought to be). Marvel isn't showing AF any respect right now; until they do, we will not get a series. This comes back to the ball really being in Marvel's court, and they just do not want to hit it.

Secondly, respect is about telling the truth. Marvel has been lying to us for quite some time now, and is trying to shut us up now by killing off any and all AF characters that they can. That isn't respect, that is dishonesty.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Forget I even asked...

Dana

[zephyr74]

All,

I just bought and read the ALPHA FLIGHT CLASSIC compilation this weekend. I was in the mood and it spared me rummaging through old comic boxes.

It was the first time I'd stepped into a comic shop in years. When I went to the counter to buy the book, I said, "Too bad they can't find a solid creative team to make Alpha Flight work." The clerk replied, "Nobody cares about a Canadian super-team." The comment struck me as odd because I'd read the same sentiment on one of these forums.

What I can't wrap my head around is that we'll buy into Star Trek, Star Wars, Judge Dredd, Elf Quest, etc. but, as Americans, we can't buy into a Canadian super-team? If the material is good, it's good. Reading those first eight issues of AF again reminded me what a good set of characters Byrne created. It was a team, a family, and a good mix of personalities and diverse backgrounds.

I don't think we need a new Alpha Flight at all. I think a new ongoing series with a dedicated creative team would be fantastic. AF had such a great foundation and the problem has been that no creative team since Byrne has been able to harness the potential in these characters.

I haven't collected in so long but from the comments I read in these forums, comic books seem to be suffering from the same ailment as Hollywood. The big corporation hires people who'll work on the series for the pay-check while having no true passion for the character(s), concepts, or existing mythology of the original material.

-Zef

[cmdrkoenig67]

All,

I just bought and read the ALPHA FLIGHT CLASSIC compilation this weekend. I was in the mood and it spared me rummaging through old comic boxes.

It was the first time I'd stepped into a comic shop in years. When I went to the counter to buy the book, I said, "Too bad they can't find a solid creative team to make Alpha Flight work." The clerk replied, "Nobody cares about a Canadian super-team." The comment struck me as odd because I'd read the same sentiment on one of these forums.

What I can't wrap my head around is that we'll buy into Star Trek, Star Wars, Judge Dredd, Elf Quest, etc. but, as Americans, we can't buy into a Canadian super-team? If the material is good, it's good. Reading those first eight issues of AF again reminded me what a good set of characters Byrne created. It was a team, a family, and a good mix of personalities and diverse backgrounds.

I too find it sad that a comic store clerk/owner would say that..."Nobody cares about a Canadian super-team"? How can he make such an unfair, small-minded judgment like that? Does he know what every comic fan wants or likes that comes into his store? I doubt it.

As you said...Many people like a variety of comics with characters from all over the place (the far future, outer space, elfworld, etc...)...Why not Canada too? Also, I agree with your comment, "If the material is good, it's good"...Get a good creative team on it with great story ideas and you'll have a winner.

I don't think we need a new Alpha Flight at all. I think a new ongoing series with a dedicated creative team would be fantastic. AF had such a great foundation and the problem has been that no creative team since Byrne has been able to harness the potential in these characters.

I also think the original team should be given a chance, but I just don't see Marvel has having the brains or the guts to do that. We will see another Alpha Flight book, but it will probably be a mix of new and old characters, along with a few "kewl" characters thrown in to generate sales...I don't think it will be Byrne's original team reborn, though.

I haven't collected in so long but from the comments I read in these forums, comic books seem to be suffering from the same ailment as Hollywood. The big corporation hires people who'll work on the series for the pay-check while having no true passion for the character(s), concepts, or existing mythology of the original material.

-Zef

Uh...Zef, you just described the majority of the writers and artists who've worked on comic characters for decades now. It is a job and many of them felt that way about, but most of them just did their best for the money (even if it was very little money at times). John Byrne didn't really want to do an Alpha Flight series, but he took it on (because he didn't want CC to do it)...He worked very hard and did some of his best work, filling in who these cyphers were. He thought of it as a job, a paycheck and I think he did marvelously. I'm not in any way, saying he didn't care about the characters at all...He was just from the old-school of thinking...Treat the characters with some respect and leave them somewhat intact for the next creator.

Dana

[rplass]

Ah, but there are FACTS we have to counter such ignorance. Alpha Flight #1 sold over 500,000 copies. It was a huge seller. So the guy is just wrong to say no one will buy a Canadian hero book. Alpha Flight was selling great, and was a consistent top 10 book. even later into Byrne's run. I put up some top ten sales lists

Here

and

here

so please use these FACTS against people who talk about sales and top books. I could dig up some more top 10 lists... give me some time to rummage through the old Marvel Age mags I have.

Love,
rplass

[HappyCanuck]

Ah, but there are FACTS we have to counter such ignorance. Alpha Flight #1 sold over 500,000 copies...
(Editorial snippage)

so please use these FACTS against people who talk about sales and top books.

Love,
rplass

FACTS are great, rplass, and I applaud your attempt, but these figure are from 25 years ago. If you start spouting that people back in 1985 LOVED the book enough to keep it in the top 10, they're gonna look at you like you just sprouted turnips from your nose, because at that time people wore their hair way up in the stratosphere. It doesn't show the figures for TODAY. We need contemporary figures, not ancient history, to show that people DO care about a Canadian team.

[rplass]

We don't have contemporary figures but we do have compelling historical facts. A blanket statement about the appeal of Canadian team books is sily anyway. What changed in 25 years to make this true now but demonstrably false then? Here are some more possible responses to the statement that peoeple won't buy Canadian team books:

1. Wolverine is Canadian, so is Deadpool

2. You're a stoopyface and I don't speak your stoopyface language, stoopyface.

3. What? Can't understand! Stoopyface! Stoopyface!

and so on. Look; Alpha Flight is awesome and it rocks hard dude, a good writer/artist can do great things with the team and it should have its own ongoing title. It was true 25 years ago and is just as true today.

Love,
rplass

[Legerd]

Ah, but there are FACTS we have to counter such ignorance. Alpha Flight #1 sold over 500,000 copies...
(Editorial snippage)

so please use these FACTS against people who talk about sales and top books.

Love,
rplass

FACTS are great, rplass, and I applaud your attempt, but these figure are from 25 years ago. If you start spouting that people back in 1985 LOVED the book enough to keep it in the top 10, they're gonna look at you like you just sprouted turnips from your nose, because at that time people wore their hair way up in the stratosphere. It doesn't show the figures for TODAY. We need contemporary figures, not ancient history, to show that people DO care about a Canadian team.

The problem is the book we want hasn't been seen since those times. The last time our Alpha Flight (I'm referring to the original series not so much the original team) had significant numbers was fifteen years ago and anything we've seen since downplayed the team or used almost entirely different characters. So we can only show how popular the characters (the ones we want used) were back then.

Perhaps a better approach would be to talk about the potential the characters have. Most of AF had little to no character development, usually being put back to square one when a new writer took over the book or they appeared as guest stars in another title. However, it seems like the time of comics being character driven is over.

So then what the team needs is a good hook to bring readers in. Maybe something like the originals come back to life, but who did it and for what dark reasons. From there, the mystery deepens as each character finds they have been subtly altered, but don't know how or why. This leads to crossovers with characters like Dr. Strange, Dr. Voodoo, Wolverine, etc. as Alpha Flight tries to unravel what has happened to them. All the while the team has to contend with various villains who are working for the big bad who is behind everything. It all culminates with an Earth threatening situation in which the Alphans who have come back must decide if they should sacrifice themselves to prevent the plan from coming to fruition.

Or something along those lines.

One thing I do know, if AF is to stand a chance, Marvel has to make sure these things happen:

1. The writing has to be great.
2. The art has to be great.
3. The book has to be promoted far better than it was before.
4. The characters have to be treated better than they have been.
5. There must be more interaction with the rest of the Marvel U.

stoopyface

[Flightpath07]

1. The writing has to be great.
2. The art has to be great.
3. The book has to be promoted far better than it was before.
4. The characters have to be treated better than they have been.
5. There must be more interaction with the rest of the Marvel U.

stoopyface

Agree.

[Ahab]

What changed in 25 years to make this true now but demonstrably false then? ***EDIT***Alpha Flight is awesome and it rocks hard dude, a good writer/artist can do great things with the team and it should have its own ongoing title. It was true 25 years ago and is just as true today.

Hmmm...can't say that I agree. Consider what the lucky writer gets to contend with:
"I'm going to use Talisman in the book." Talisman? You mean Shaman? "No, Talisman - Shaman is dead. Talisman is his daughter that has Shaman's pouch - and is essentially the tribe's new Shaman." Oh.
"I think Aurora would be fun too". Well, apparently Aurora isn't the most 'fun'. "Yes, Jeanne-Marie would be fun to play around with too." I wasn't talking about her either. "Oh."
"And of course what is the team without Puck?" Definitely - we need someone with agility, plus Puck was kind of hot. "No - not that Puck! The original!" The old man? "Well, not anymore..." But what I mean is the super-densed- skin one right? "Well, not anymore..." Oh.
"And I figure how can you have a team without Guardian?" But he's dead. "No, Byrne brought him back remember?" But no, he's dead... "Yeah, yeah, he died fighting Galactus too but they brought him back" No. I'm telling you - he's dead! "Oh please, don't get me started on that nonsense that Chuck Austen wrote in Uncanny. Guardian survived that!" Um, but no, he's dead again. "Oh."

And so on and so on. These characters were a breath of fresh air in the 80's, but they are so damaged now that I don't hold out much hope for them, much as I love them.

[Legerd]

What changed in 25 years to make this true now but demonstrably false then? ***EDIT***Alpha Flight is awesome and it rocks hard dude, a good writer/artist can do great things with the team and it should have its own ongoing title. It was true 25 years ago and is just as true today.

Hmmm...can't say that I agree. Consider what the lucky writer gets to contend with:
"I'm going to use Talisman in the book." Talisman? You mean Shaman? "No, Talisman - Shaman is dead. Talisman is his daughter that has Shaman's pouch - and is essentially the tribe's new Shaman." Oh.
"I think Aurora would be fun too". Well, apparently Aurora isn't the most 'fun'. "Yes, Jeanne-Marie would be fun to play around with too." I wasn't talking about her either. "Oh."
"And of course what is the team without Puck?" Definitely - we need someone with agility, plus Puck was kind of hot. "No - not that Puck! The original!" The old man? "Well, not anymore..." But what I mean is the super-densed- skin one right? "Well, not anymore..." Oh.
"And I figure how can you have a team without Guardian?" But he's dead. "No, Byrne brought him back remember?" But no, he's dead... "Yeah, yeah, he died fighting Galactus too but they brought him back" No. I'm telling you - he's dead! "Oh please, don't get me started on that nonsense that Chuck Austen wrote in Uncanny. Guardian survived that!" Um, but no, he's dead again. "Oh."

And so on and so on. These characters were a breath of fresh air in the 80's, but they are so damaged now that I don't hold out much hope for them, much as I love them.

That can be pretty much said about any character out there. Look at the FF, Avengers, X-men, etc. How many more bad stories have been told with those teams that just gets ignored or retconned later on?

I think this is the perfect opportunity to bring the original AF back. Not only can this be a fresh point for people to jump on the book, but the characters are, for the most part, unknown to many new readers. Aurora was "cured" of her MPD last I checked; the only time Shaman was the Talisman was, what, about nineteen years ago, who will remember that besides those of us who were there for it?

Most of the bad ideas can be swept quietly under the rug, ideas like: the evil government conspiracy that went on and on and on; Puck being infested with Raazar; Sasquatch being an accidental transsexual; Snowbird's baby being possessed and her mortal family (and her) subsequently being killed, etc. Why not use this chance to cherry pick the best stories and build onto them? Not to mention it would be cool to see how each of the resurrected Alphans deals with having died and returned.

Reintroduce the characters, streamline their past, clean up loose plot threads and make them bigger players in the Marvel U. IMO that will give AF a fighting chance as an ongoing.

[Flightpath07]

Reintroduce the characters, streamline their past, clean up loose plot threads and make them bigger players in the Marvel U. IMO that will give AF a fighting chance as an ongoing.

My heart would dearly love to agree with you...

I think Marvel has worked too hard to purge AF as we knew it from the Marvel Universe, to invite it back in.

It'll have to be new. It'll have to be fresh. It'll have to be much more like what is out there and already is selling well, than what we remember and long for.

As different as Omega Flight was from the original John Byrne run on Alpha Flight, the new Alpha Flight series will have to be just as different if not more so. If not, it will not get published.

[HappyCanuck]

My heart would dearly love to agree with you...

I think Marvel has worked too hard to purge AF as we knew it from the Marvel Universe, to invite it back in.

Well, there ya go, FP!! You just solved our dilemma! See, they worked so hard purging AF as we know it from the MU, to introduce them as they were originally intended WOULD be 'new', 'fresh' and whatnot! Congrats, m'boy, you just saved the Flight! (Mind now we just have to get Joe Quesada EXTREMELY drunk so he'd see this and agree....)