It's time for a new Flight

[Le Messor]

It was 'The Clinic for Socially Maladjusted Super-Beings' and I'm pretty sure that was a sarcastic name for Dept H's Beta and Gamma Flights that Puck was tossing around in his head , not an actual clinic.

Wow, that's a different interpretation. It kinda works, but I'm not sure I agree with it -- it looks like, in the context, everyone went through the clinic before induction (but not necessarily at the same time, which means Jeffries and Box might not've met there).

IIRC, this is the only mention of it ever. (Which lends weight to your theory.)

It's like Lil's "other alias", Creepy Crawley - another Puck sarcasm.

- Le Messor
"You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses."
- Ziggy

[cmdrkoenig67]

I can take or leave James Hudson (personally, I think the incessant rising from the dead is ridiculous) but Heather MUST be present in Alpha Flight.

-Zef

I agree, I'd love to see Heather leading the team again (even if it's not in the field).

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

I hated when Shaman became Talisman during the Pestilence storyline.

Never read those issues but it sound like the last incarnation of Nemesis went against the existing mythology of the character.

Yes (where Nemesis is concerned)...Mr Lobdell threw a few more wrenches into Alpha Flight continuity there (he made claims that his version of Nemesis was the same Nemesis as all the others, which really doesn't make sense)...However, the true blame lay on the writer (James Hudnall) who brought her back after Bill Mantlo had her crumble to dust. If only Hudnall made it perfectly clear that his Nemesis was a new one and not the original, perhaps Scott wouldn't have tried to make them all one and the same.

I also disliked Shaman becoming Talisman...I don't see how he could have in the first place...he was not the "chosen one", it should have been impossible for him to even put on the coronet of power.

Dana

[Le Messor]

While Lobdell did say that Nemesis was all three the same, he never put it in the book itself; so it can be safely ignored.

Shaman as Talisman... meh. Bad move, but far from the worst of the period; and arguably possible. We know only Liz could've pulled the Talisman out'f the pouch, it was never said...
Yeah, that sounds pretty lame, donut?

- Le Messor
"Children have never been good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them."
- James Baldwin

[cmdrkoenig67]

While Lobdell did say that Nemesis was all three the same, he never put it in the book itself; so it can be safely ignored.

Very true, Mik.

Shaman as Talisman... meh. Bad move, but far from the worst of the period; and arguably possible. We know only Liz could've pulled the Talisman out'f the pouch, it was never said...
Yeah, that sounds pretty lame, donut?

Yes...Yes, it does...LOL! All I'm saying is...When Narya first met Elizabeth, the first thing she did was bow before her (that indicates Liz was meant for greatness and it convinced Michael of his daughter's special destiny)...AFAIK, Snowbird never bowed before Michael Twoyoungmen...He was never meant to wear it.

- Le Messor
"Children have never been good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them."
- James Baldwin

Great quote.

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

Back on track...I'm beginning to think a line-up of just Byrne's original team would be a mistake...After all, do we see only Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's Avengers line-up still to this day?...No...It's always a mix of new and old.

Alpha needs to be the same (a good balance of old and new)...But I think with Alpha, the basic premise can't be messed with...Heroes of Canada teaming up to defend their country (no funky X-Files conspiracies and no bad comedy routines). Maybe Byrne's original approach is best, though...Heroes from various Provinces scattered across the nation, who team up only when they need to.

I really think Heather should be the one to reunite Alpha Flight for Volume 4, just like she did in Volume 1 and lead them again (I'm nostalgic).

Dana

[Flightpath07]

I really think Heather should be the one to reunite Alpha Flight for Volume 4, just like she did in Volume 1 and lead them again (I'm nostalgic).

Well, I have to admit, that'd make more sense than Sasquatch doing so in Volume 3 and again in Omega Flight. He was never a true leader, just a good supporting character.

[Le Messor]

Back on track...I'm beginning to think a line-up of just Byrne's original team would be a mistake...

Possibly true... When I say I want Byrne's team back, I mean something that at least resembles it in style, tones, ideas, and character line-up.
I don't mind my book changing with time, but I want something that is recogniseably it.

After all, do we see only Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's Avengers line-up still to this day?...

From time to time. Same with the JLA; we still occasionally see Stan & Jack's orig--
You know what I mean!

(I got that quote from a quote of the day calendar.)

- LM
"Freedom of the press belongs to those that own one."
- A.J. Liebling

[Ahab]

Back on track...I'm beginning to think a line-up of just Byrne's original team would be a mistake...After all, do we see only Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's Avengers line-up still to this day?...No...It's always a mix of new and old.

Alpha needs to be the same (a good balance of old and new)...But I think with Alpha, the basic premise can't be messed with...Heroes of Canada teaming up to defend their country (no funky X-Files conspiracies and no bad comedy routines). Maybe Byrne's original approach is best, though...Heroes from various Provinces scattered across the nation, who team up only when they need to.

I really think Heather should be the one to reunite Alpha Flight for Volume 4, just like she did in Volume 1 and lead them again (I'm nostalgic).

Dana

I think Heather should be back and just skip the first generation. Why not seek out Elizabeth to lead the new generation of Alpha Flight - Puck II, Mar, Snowbird's son and Jeffries' progeny revealed in Death's Head or whatever that series was called. Maybe Walter's son is scientifically curious like his dad. Heck, you could even age Heather and Mac's kid! Throw in the Legacies and you have a new team ripe with tons of backstory and just waiting to be screwed up by countless Marvel writers that have no imagination.

I'm only being about half sarcastic. I actually wish there was enough interest to so something like this (to the extent that it could be done using good storytelling), but know it would never fly. Too much baggage...

[Flightpath07]

It is a thought, Ahab.

There are TONNES of cool AF characters out there, that have fallen by the wayside and never been fleshed out fully..

[Garry/Al-Fan]

...I don't recall if Byrne ever indicated that Elizabeth could "never" remove the coronet (just that it would be absolute agony to do so)?...
Dana

Both Byrne and Mantlo stated that the Coronet could not be removed: Byrne in AF, vol. 1, # 20 and Mantlo in AF# 35 (the issue where Michael is given the ancestral garb by Talisman after successfully completing his Spirit Tests).

To delve deeper into the plausibility of someone else assuming the role of Talisman, it doesn't seem reasonable to have a specific person pull the Coronet out of the medicine pouch's void (something Michael never did as Shaman), only to have anybody else take it from her---even someone with quasi-magical powers like Pestilence and don it (Michael). Shaman is one of my favorite characters, but it is pretty much established that he was not the one foretold, nor was he the Breaker of Dark Spells or the Binder of Spirits. While Pestilence may have had the mystical might to take the Coronet off of Elizabeth and not really give a damn what happened to her as a consequence, it doesn't seem possible that an aged Shaman would be able to function as "Talisman." Moreover, the tragedy that Shaman forewarned at the very beginning was manifesting: (1) the "psychic death" she (and Northstar and Aurora) received by Somon in AF# 24; (2) the drug(s) the robot Delphine Courtney injected her with [off-panel] between AF#s 26 and 27; and (3) being trapped in the void when Shaman had to chose whom to help first, Snowbird or Elizabeth.

While the motivation of resentment was the only one Mantlo tapped into, there were several reasons why the creation of Pestilence should have been Alpha Flight's biggest tragedy.