Sojourn!, the other Great Beast?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Do we?...I thought Byrne indicated that there were many beasts in ancient times and the seven remaining were only the survivors of that race (Alpha Flight Vol 1, issue 6, page 11...I think)? The beasts raised by Mauvais (in Wolverine#172) were meant to be beasts that had been killed in ancient times (the Beasts of Antiquity and the Great Beasts are related IMHO).

Here's some scans..

Alpha Flight #6 [Vol.1]
It didn't say those seven were the survivors though

Quote: "There were SEVEN Great Beasts involved in the LAST BATTLE, a thousand years ago." I keep thinking there's another reference to more Beasts later on...It seemed to me that Snowbird was implying there were more at one time...

1.http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...light06-11.jpg

Wolverine #172
Just posting the scans to see what your talking about.

1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...rine172-09.jpg

[cmdrkoenig67]

I think when Sarcee (Native American) legend refers to the Great Beasts, it is with the 7 we know of in mind. There were obviously many lesser Beasts and creatures that inhabit Tribal Lore, but they are not part of the 'Great Beasts'. They are just lesser creatures who existed in and around that time. Therefore 'Sojourn' or whatever he may be recognised as. not a Great Beast as Alpha Fans know them. IMHO.

BUT...Shaman refers to him as a Great Beast and he waits for the creature to return to the Realm of the Beasts...Does Shaman not know what he's talking about? Apparently, there are/were more than Seven Great Beasts.

The Seven Beasts seem to represent various elemental forces, various sins and the powers of decay and destruction (Kolomaq=winter, Tundra=the land, Tolomaq=fire, Kariooq=decay, etc...)....Perhaps there are more Beasts that represent the missing elements/sins...Like water, air, etc...Or perhaps those Beasts were killed by their brethren or the Gods?

Dana

[Le Messor]

Dana,
I'll sit corrected based on your post. I only think of the 7 we saw, but I'll allow that other non-survivors were revived (without reading all the issues; though I'm now without excuse, 'coz they're right next to me).

OTOH...
No, I can't say that.
I was going to point out that they were all _destructive_ forces; fire, decay; and therefore water and air may not be qualified... but Tundra IS the land, as you pointed out, so I can't go with that. (But then, why would sarcee Beasts use Greek elements?)

- Le Messor
"(as Stegosaurus) Yes. This is a fertile land, and we will thrive. We will rule over this land, and we will call it...this land. (as Allosaur) I think we should call it your grave! (as Stegosaurus) Ah! Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal! (as Allosaur) Mine is an evil laugh! Now DIE!"
- Wash, Firefly pilot

[cmdrkoenig67]

YES! I was right...I knew I had seen more than one instance of more than just seven Great Beasts being mentioned in Volume One....In issue #23 posted by Ryan over at the Byrne forum...The Shaper (Turoq) tells Snowbird to look upon the form of "One of the last Seven, of the Great Beasts!"

There were more than seven....Maybe there were thousands, the gods just whittled them down over their many years of battle to just seven.

Dana (Does the "I was right" dance)

[Flightpath07]

Dana (Does the "I was right" dance)

You really need to find an Avatar that shows the dance...


By the way, good job on proving your right-ness!

[cmdrkoenig67]

Dana (Does the "I was right" dance)

You really need to find an Avatar that shows the dance...


By the way, good job on proving your right-ness!

Thanks...I was being a goofball. I just couldn't place where I'd seen Byrne's mentioning of there being more than seven Great Beasts...I found the first mention, but I kept feeling I'd read another somewhere...And there it was in Ryan's latest posting of the Byrne Flight issues...The BEST Alpha Flight stories ever.

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

Dana,
I'll sit corrected based on your post. I only think of the 7 we saw, but I'll allow that other non-survivors were revived (without reading all the issues; though I'm now without excuse, 'coz they're right next to me).

OTOH...
No, I can't say that.
I was going to point out that they were all _destructive_ forces; fire, decay; and therefore water and air may not be qualified... but Tundra IS the land, as you pointed out, so I can't go with that. (But then, why would sarcee Beasts use Greek elements?)

- Le Messor

Mik...Are you saying Water and Air aren't destructive forces? They certainly are...Water and air together are the forces which corrode metals, together or separate they are forces which erode the land, water is the enemy of fire as well...Is it not? The Beasts embodied many of these elements and they were all each other's worst enemies...

Examples: Tundra could only be defeated by being eroded by air and water (as shown in issue #1), the Beaubier twins attempt to errode him by flying around in him at high speed...This is taking too long so Alpha decides to use water, first with the rainstorm created by Shaman and then by use of the waterspout brought by Marrina...In issue #24 (I think): Kariooq the corrupter freaks out when ice shards are thrown at him by Shaman, "Ice, the preserver!" He shrieks...Ice and extreme cold are his enemies as they preserve by freezing and halting decay. Cold and ice also freeze the earth creating permafrost, which makes Kolomaq and Tundra great enemies too (hence Kolomaq could only be imprisoned by being buried under earth). Water, snow/ice and Earth are all enemies of Tolomaq the Fire Beast as they will smother his flames. Fire can also melt snow/ice and even evaporate water, which makes him an enemy of Kolomaq the Snow Beast too. Tundra would also be the enemy of Kariooq, since he too can halt decay...Either by petrification (replacement of organic cells with mineral elements) or by mummification (drying out of organic tissue).

The beasts embody all of these adversarial elements and without Somon to control them they would be battling each other to the death.

Dana

[HappyCanuck]

Even if you take it a bit more basic than that, Dana:

How destructive is a tornado or hurricane, which is primarily hig-speed wind? How destructive are flooding or torrential waters? I think those in the South Pacific and New Orleans would argue quite positively that they are. Fire is obviously destructive, as is the land (ever been in an earthquake, or seen a landslide?). Ice and Snow are also very destructive - take it from the guy who lives in Avalanche Alley!

Each of the Great Beasts are equally destructive as their elemental form, not just to us but to each other.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Even if you take it a bit more basic than that, Dana:

How destructive is a tornado or hurricane, which is primarily hig-speed wind? How destructive are flooding or torrential waters? I think those in the South Pacific and New Orleans would argue quite positively that they are. Fire is obviously destructive, as is the land (ever been in an earthquake, or seen a landslide?). Ice and Snow are also very destructive - take it from the guy who lives in Avalanche Alley!

Each of the Great Beasts are equally destructive as their elemental form, not just to us but to each other.

Right on!...Somebody get's it. Byrne had written that the Beasts despised each other and they were in fact all enemies to themselves as well as to the old gods of the north. Somon was said to be the most powerful Beast as he could control them and make them work together. My belief is that many of the Beasts slew each other (just as the gods were also slaying and imprisoning them) before he took over and attempted to use them as his army against the old gods.

[Le Messor]

Dana,

What you say is all true, and I especially agree with the insight that they're all enemies of each other.

However, what I meant was not that air and water are harmless and pacific (okay, a lot of water is Pacific), but that their primary nature is not (or is not seen as) a force for destruction. Not in the same way as, say, fire or decay (which can also be forces for creation; warmth and penicillin).

- LM
"Fire! The untamed element! Giver of warmth! Destroyer of forests! Right now, this building is on fire! Leave the building and act the age old drama of self-preservation!"
- Gremlins 2