Civil War: The Initiative- (SPOILERS!!) Alpha Flight related

**Mokole** · 03-07-2007

Originally Posted by Oeming

To me, this is only one TRUE Guardian and he died an amazing death in Alpha Flight #12 and that was the end of his story. Canada's hero was never the costume, it was the man inside the costume. To me, Alpha Flight was never about BEING Canada or Canadian, it was about being in service TO Canada and Canadians.

Well, good luck proving that! I hope Sasquatch and Talisman give mailman Mike what for and he proves to be worthy of living here. As such, becoming a Canadian.

Edited because I'm not doing any good anyway.

**RatCat** · 03-07-2007

Originally Posted by nygfan

also all this talk about not buying OF is just what Joe Q wants you to do......

Huh? Joe Q doesn't want his company to make money? he must be a horrible EIC.

**Mokole** · 03-08-2007

None of my faves were ever in the lineup, ever: Box, Feedback, Windshear, Witchfire, Nemesis, Puck, Zuzha, Flex, Ghost Girl, even Wild Child and Goblyn. I think Talisman and Sasquatch are OK but neither makes me want to write an AF story about them. Yet I pulled hard for OF to be a winner and did my part to show we wanted a series.

I'm editing because what I say really doesn't matter.

**Transmetropolitan** · 03-08-2007

Honestly, of the team that got waxed, I'm only gonna mss a couple.

Heather- no excuses here. I'm gonna miss Heather Hudson.
Michael. Still gonna miss 'im... but at least he has a "legacy" on the team. It's time Elizabeth stepped up anyway.
Eugene- Eh. Purely sentimental attachment, here. His backstory has been meddled with so much that it's hard ot say what makes him a really defining character anymore.

Mac... never really crossed my radar in a way that made me like him much.
MMLJr and Puckette are, sadly, cursed by their Volume Three associations.

And consider...

Narya, the Twins, Jeffires, Lil, MOST of the Volume 2 crew... All still out there, alive and kicking.

**Guardian** · 03-08-2007

Originally Posted by Ben

Ok, fine. People are welcome to their opinions, I just don't understand something like this making people turn full circle on their opinions of the book's prospects. I think we should at the very least read issue #1 before condemning the series.

I understand that this news upset some people, but I feel pretty sure that Oeming has some interesting angles planned if he decided to use this character.

Ben

Well I've had some time to let this stuff sink in so........ I'll still read OF. Hopefully Oeming has an ace up his sleeve. And to be honest this team does still seem interesting to me. I've always liked the U.S. Agent and Spider-Woman, and BRB and Talisman are great.

And Ben you're right, mailman Mike didn't have control at the time. Having him on the team does have some interesting story possibilities. But having him wear Guardians suit, I'm not to keen on still. At this point only Mac or Heather should wear that suit. But will see. I await next month.

**Guardian** · 03-08-2007

Originally Posted by Legerd

Originally Posted by Captain Primate

what if he took Canadian citizenship...that would be cool.

How about this, if the States lets a Canadian take over as Captain America now that Rogers is dead, we'll be okay with Mike as Guardian/Weapon Alpha/whatever he's going to be called.

Uh....no.

As far as I'm concerned, nobody should wear the Captain America suit anymore, other than Steve Rogers. American or not. Though other characters have nobley taken the Mantle of Captain America. The only real Cap is Steve. He made the suit. He died wearing the suit, protecting his people. R.I.P. Steve.

**Guardian** · 03-08-2007

Originally Posted by Oeming

Thanks Varo! But no one is pissing me off, Ive been through this before, remember, I killed THOR

As for me stating Michael wasn't going to be in the uniform, I dont remember saying that, if I did, I mispoke/mistyped it and apologize to anyone who felt mislead by that.

To me, this is only one TRUE Guardian and he died an amazing death in Alpha Flight #12 and that was the end of his story. Canada's hero was never the costume, it was the man inside the costume. To me, Alpha Flight was never about BEING Canada or Canadian, it was about being in service TO Canada and Canadians.

I think that was always the point of the team.

Thanks for comin' by Mike. You're a class act.

I've had sometime to adjust and I'll still give OF a shot. The lineup is still really interesting to me and havin' the mailman on the team COULD be interesting. I guess his character has some great potential. And he could really make a difference. But why in the Guardian suit?

I've got a couple questions for ya if you could answer 'em.

1. Who's idea was it to put mailman Mike in the Guardian suit?

2. What name will he go by? Anything but Guardian or Vindicator!

Thanks Mike. (I love your Red Sonja stuff by the way.)

**Barnacle13** · 03-08-2007

Wow! That was a bomb dropped. So Alpha Really is dead

! Dana really was right (that's might be just as hard to accept

)! I'll miss my Alphans. As stated before, Mac should have stayed dead a long time ago. I think Shaman could possibly be just as effective in spirit form teaching Elizabeth. Heather, I'll have a hard time accepting her death. Puck, I'm very saddened by his death. He and Heather to me were always the heart of the team. MML and Puckette, good worm food. I won't miss them much.

Mailman Mike in the suit bothers me for a couple reasons. 1)It does seem a bit disrepectful and I have to respectfully disagree with Mike on this one. I think the Guardian suit was an iconic national symbol. Whether worn by Mac or Heather it stood for Canada. I guess Jade Dragon and Windshear support his "service to Canada" stance on the team, but leadership has always been Canadian. 2) Now you have a superpowered being wearing your national symbol, who is trying to gain control of his powers on Canadian soil, where his greatest attrocity occurred. Wouldn't the government be a little concerned about it's citizens. All it would take is one really bad day and a loss of control and hundreds or thousands could be killed. 3) and perhaps this will present itself as a character element, I'd think he himself would be worried about the above. Will I kill more innocents if I can't control my powers. Does moving the body count to Canada make it any less significant? I think not!

I hope Mike at least addresses what becomes of Mac and Heather's child. I'd think Julia being a single parent would be very interested in the plight of this orphan. Mailman Mike should at some point be confronted with that reality as well. How can he possibly vindicate that? Mike's gonna really have to pull one out of the proverbial hat for that!

I'll try to stay optimistic, I'm sure the story will be good. It's not what I was hoping for, so I'll have to adjust my expectations. I no longer see the possibility of an Alpha Flight spin off.

**Barnacle13** · 03-08-2007

Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

I'm with SephirothsKiller, Powersurge and any other Canadian who feels this is a slap in the face.

I'm not even Canadian, but I'm totally disgusted by this terrible idea No American should be slapped into a Canadian-flag costume, just for pennance. It's ridiculous.

I'm not sure what to be more pissed about...AF dead or this American as Vindicator/Guardian atrocity.

Dana

You bring up another great point. It's already been discussed here what they have done to Speedball. Is every character in the MU going to be doing pennance? I just hope that Mike put some serious thought into Mailman's transgressions and that they are all addressed. Baby Hudson should play a major role in his pennance. I'm still buying, but it'll have to be good to keep me. I was hopeful for an eventual Alpha Flight spin off. I can only hope now that some of the others mentioned earlier (Snowbird, Jefferies, Northstar, Aurora, etc) will eventually make appearances and maybe gain in popularity. But I really can't see any of them carrying a title. Heather or Mac will need to come back from the grave to make Alpha a go, unless Mike can change my mind with the Mailman.

**Obsidian3d** · 03-08-2007

I never implied that I wouldn't buy Omega Flight, far from it...it's the only thing on my current list from Marvel other than The Dark Tower mini. I will however have to also disagree with Mike and say that I heartily disagree with putting a non-Canadian, especially one guilty of (in control of himself or not) the murders of over a half dozen of Canada's heroes.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the narrative plays out in OF, with both sides the of the US / Canada relationship being looked at, but on a global stage, both within the US and in other countries abroad the truth remains that Canada is largely seen as the USA's slightly backward and unfortunate cousin. And I think that is what truly bothers me. I will admit that I, like I'm sure a lot of other Canadians with global living/travel experience, probably feel a little bit of persecution complex. After the 10th or 20th time someone asks you "Are you American?" it can make a person want to scream. Thus, it strikes me as more than a little out of line to have an American citizen (because no matter what anyone may think, Alaska is part of the US and anyone from there will tell you so) wearing our flag.

As several of our American members have said here, even the thought of a non-American wearing the uniform of Captain America makes them feel uneasy. So I don't see how putting mailman Mike in the suit can be considered a good idea at all, and seems more than a little bit arrogant, regardless of the interesting story possibilities it may present. It would never be done with an American symbol, so what makes it ok to be done to a Canadian one?

Now please, before anyone gets too up in arms over my statements...I'm not casting aspersions on any of our US members, Americans in general, the creative team on OF or anyone else. I am just trying to make clear as to why I feel upset about the choice. Perhaps the story in Omega Flight will blow me away and I'll be more than able to accept the reasons behind it. But for now I'll just have reserve judgement on that until I read it.

**Corvus** · 03-08-2007

Originally Posted by Oeming

Thanks Varo! But no one is pissing me off, Ive been through this before, remember, I killed THOR

As for me stating Michael wasn't going to be in the uniform, I dont remember saying that, if I did, I mispoke/mistyped it and apologize to anyone who felt mislead by that.

To me, this is only one TRUE Guardian and he died an amazing death in Alpha Flight #12 and that was the end of his story. Canada's hero was never the costume, it was the man inside the costume. To me, Alpha Flight was never about BEING Canada or Canadian, it was about being in service TO Canada and Canadians.

I think that was always the point of the team.

None of which addresses the fact that you're putting an American, and one who murdered, voluntarily or not, multiple Canadian heroes in a costume bearing our country's flag.

All of the things you said are good reasons to have people from other countries on a Canadian based team. They aren't reasons to slap them into the costume of a well known Canadian hero based on our flag. And thats the centre of most of the complaints.

**Alpha Fan** · 03-08-2007

As most of you I don't like having the mailman in the Guardian suit but that won't stop me from picking up OF.

What saddens me the most is the death of Heather and Puck. Heather and Puck have been the heart of AF since the beginning and after all they have been through their pathetic death didn't do justice to the characters.

The current context for Omega Flight leaves me with some questions that I hope can be resolved in a future (I hope) OF regular series:

1) What's going to happen to Mac and Heather's baby?

2) Will the other important AF members alive deal with their former teammates deaths in any way? I'm refering to Northstar, Aurora, Snowbird, Diamond Lil and Jeffries. Particularly, I'm sure Snowbird will have something to say about her adoptive father's death.

3) Will we see Alpha Flight's funeral (at least in flashbacks) or it will take place off-panel too? AF is one of the most important Marvel teams. I guess they deserve a big State funeral.

**cmdrkoenig67** · 03-08-2007