Joe Q at it again...

[Legerd]

wonder if champions will be a mini?

Nope, it's a maxi.

As announced at the Civil War: The Initiative panel at New York Comic Con, the July-launching 12-issue maxi-series by Matt Fraction and Barry Kitson...

http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.479

[Le Messor]

Whether it seems funny in an online recap is sort of irrelevant.

Unless you count the fact that 90% of readers are ONLY going to get the online recap.

The 'it's just gas' comment didn't undermine New Avengers in any way. Meaning, nothing in that comment can be read as 'New Avengers is bad'. 'Sasquatch never looked cool' can only be read as negative. Even in joking.

Do you see the distinction?

- Le Messor
"Dangling prepositions is something up with which I will not put."

[Canucklehead]

Well, new New Warriors is an ongoing...

NRAMA: Also, last week spoke New Warriors was slated as an ongoing, but since that time, another post-Civil War launch Omega Flight was changed from an ongoing to (at least initially) a limited series. One can find a fair amount of similarities between Alpha Flight and the New Warriors. They’re both concepts that had a popular initial runs and garnered loyal cult followings based on those early years, but since then neither have been able to sustain attempts to relaunch.

So first all, what’s your series current status, ongoing or limited series?

KG: The series is definitely an ongoing. I have a lot of cool things planned.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=102799

[cmdrkoenig67]

Whether it seems funny in an online recap is sort of irrelevant.

Unless you count the fact that 90% of readers are ONLY going to get the online recap.

The 'it's just gas' comment didn't undermine New Avengers in any way. Meaning, nothing in that comment can be read as 'New Avengers is bad'. 'Sasquatch never looked cool' can only be read as negative. Even in joking.

Do you see the distinction?

I certainly do...Joe's constant potshots at AF/AF characters and Tom Brevoort's less-than-pleasant comments about the AF community are getting really tiresome. Quesada has shown very little to no respect for Alpha Flight/AF's creator or AF fans. I don't see a man just making jokes...I see somebody who feels/thinks Alpha Flight is a big joke (a team filled with lame heroes from Canada, who really don't deserve to have an on-going series) and isn't willing to let us forget it.

I'm sure Joe would be very happy to never hear anything about Alpha Flight again (hence the name-change and shoe-horning of non-Canadian characters into the book).

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

Well, new New Warriors is an ongoing...

[i]NRAMA: Also, last week spoke New Warriors was slated as an ongoing, but since that time, another post-Civil War launch Omega Flight was changed from an ongoing to (at least initially) a limited series. One can find a fair amount of similarities between Alpha Flight and the New Warriors. They’re both concepts that had a popular initial runs and garnered loyal cult followings based on those early years, but since then neither have been able to sustain attempts to relaunch.

GAWD!....Of course neither AF or NW relaunches have been able to make it...They just don't get it, do they? They keep giving us stand-ins for the real thing or watered-down AF/NW concepts or "funny books"...Cripes!

Dana

[Adam]

Whether it seems funny in an online recap is sort of irrelevant.

Unless you count the fact that 90% of readers are ONLY going to get the online recap.

The 'it's just gas' comment didn't undermine New Avengers in any way. Meaning, nothing in that comment can be read as 'New Avengers is bad'. 'Sasquatch never looked cool' can only be read as negative. Even in joking.

Do you see the distinction?

Sure, but I also think it's unreasonable to expect a group of creators talking up their products to a room full of fans to stop and deliberate every single sentence and flippant remark in an effort to prevent people on the internet from picking one out of context and misconstruing it. To expect Joe et all to only speak in bullet-proof one-sentence sound bytes that are guaranteed not to offend is unrealistic.

We're making a mountain out of a molehill, and as I said earlier regardless of what Joe actually meant we're not going to complain this book into existence.

[Adam]

I certainly do...Joe's constant potshots at AF/AF characters and Tom Brevoort's less-than-pleasant comments about the AF community are getting really tiresome. Quesada has shown very little to no respect for Alpha Flight/AF's creator or AF fans. I don't see a man just making jokes...I see somebody who feels/thinks Alpha Flight is a big joke (a team filled with lame heroes from Canada, who really don't deserve to have an on-going series) and isn't willing to let us forget it.

I'm sure Joe would be very happy to never hear anything about Alpha Flight again (hence the name-change and shoe-horning of non-Canadian characters into the book).

Dana I'm sorry to harp on this, but this has devolved into fantasy.

Who entertained proposals for Omega?
Who greenlit the series?
Who chatted it up in his weekly online interviews?
Who pushed previews of the art out to fans in the company's most read online outlets?
Who talking about it in his NYCC panels?
Who agreed to work all this Alpha-related stuff into the company's big Civil War / Initiative push?

Joe.

Yes, he also looked at the market and decided to downgrade it to a mini, but that's part of his job.

While that decision hurts, for us to paint him as some mustache-twirling evil that we need to fight against is purely fantasy on our part. It may make us feel better, but it has no grounding in reality. If he really didn't want Marvel publishing anything about Alpha at all you wouldn't see 1 issue let alone 5.

Do you really think that Joe hates this book so much that he purposely greenlit a series with the INTENT on using it to screw with the hardcore fans and ultimately crush their spirits? Really? You seriously think he has a personal vendetta against us so deep that it's worth wasting money and creator time on?

The fact of the matter is that whether Omega was greenlit as a 5 issue mini or a 10,000 issue epic, if the sales at the end of issue 5 arn't enough to warrant an issue 6 then it wouldn't happen one way or the other.

[SephirothsKiller]

Dana I'm sorry to harp on this, but this has devolved into fantasy.

Who entertained proposals for Omega?
Who greenlit the series?
Who chatted it up in his weekly online interviews?
Who pushed previews of the art out to fans in the company's most read online outlets?
Who talking about it in his NYCC panels?
Who agreed to work all this Alpha-related stuff into the company's big Civil War / Initiative push?

Joe.

Yes, he also looked at the market and decided to downgrade it to a mini, but that's part of his job.

While that decision hurts, for us to paint him as some mustache-twirling evil that we need to fight against is purely fantasy on our part. It may make us feel better, but it has no grounding in reality. If he really didn't want Marvel publishing anything about Alpha at all you wouldn't see 1 issue let alone 5.

Do you really think that Joe hates this book so much that he purposely greenlit a series with the INTENT on using it to screw with the hardcore fans and ultimately crush their spirits? Really? You seriously think he has a personal vendetta against us so deep that it's worth wasting money and creator time on?

The fact of the matter is that whether Omega was greenlit as a 5 issue mini or a 10,000 issue epic, if the sales at the end of issue 5 arn't enough to warrant an issue 6 then it wouldn't happen one way or the other.

Quoted for truth.

[Mokole]

Well, the New New Warriors being an ongoing is a knock against the argument that Omega Flight was downgraded for economic reasons. Sounds like the downgrade was done for editorial reasons.

How many books have ever been downgraded from ongoings to minis like that? How many minis have been turned into ongoings? Not many, if any recently.

But their is a lot of momentum to Omega Flight already, though no comments from Marvel like "It's popular in the editors' offices" like Joe Q et al say about other titles. If Oeming/Kolins hit the high notes, Marvel will turn it into an ongoing.

[Le Messor]

I'm personally not making much out of anything, to be honest. I've already stated elsewhere that I've got no strong feelings about OF one way or the other.
It's the flawed logic that's got me answering these threads:

I also think it's unreasonable to expect a group of creators talking up their products to a room full of fans to stop and deliberate every single sentence and flippant remark in an effort to prevent people on the internet from picking one out of context and misconstruing it. To expect Joe et all to only speak in bullet-proof one-sentence sound bytes that are guaranteed not to offend is unrealistic.

'a group of creators talking up their products' are exactly the type of people I'd expect to 'speak in bullet-proof one-sentence sound bytes'. I expect them to be making PREPARED statements with a view to PUBLICITY.
These are people marketing a product.
Did the Coca Cola executives ever go on TV / newspapers / whatever and say "I personally think New Coke was never any good" while marketing it? I think not!
If we're mobbing against Joe Q right now, it's because he gave us the rope. I think knot.

When you're trying to bring a new product to the market, you don't undermine it in public. That's all I'm saying.

- Le Messor
"I only gave you the rope. You tied a clown to it."
- Michael J Fox, Spin City

[cmdrkoenig67]

Dana I'm sorry to harp on this, but this has devolved into fantasy.

In your opinion, not mine.

Who entertained proposals for Omega?
Who greenlit the series?
Who chatted it up in his weekly online interviews?
Who pushed previews of the art out to fans in the company's most read online outlets?
Who talking about it in his NYCC panels?
Who agreed to work all this Alpha-related stuff into the company's big Civil War / Initiative push?

Joe.

You forgot he red-lighted an actual Alpha Flight Proposal from Millar, then green-lighted the OF proposal (he doesn't believe the original AF will work, yet has no proof it won't). He green-lighted an on-going, then canned that. He said AF fans would hate what happens and then love it? What was he referring to...Alpha's Death? Yes...we hated it...But will we love Omega? That is yet to be seen. Was Joe also the person that told Oeming, who stated in an interview that this would be Alpha's last chance...Implying that if Omega Flight fails, we'll never see AF again?

BTW...What "Alpha-related stuff" are you referring to in the Civil War/Initiative books? Do you mean Omega-related?

Yes, he also looked at the market and decided to downgrade it to a mini, but that's part of his job.

Yet New Warriors gets an on-going and the untried new "Champions" gets a Maxi? Downgrading a series from on-going to mini makes me a bit more worried about quality and content, more than it being a marketing issue.

While that decision hurts, for us to paint him as some mustache-twirling evil that we need to fight against is purely fantasy on our part. It may make us feel better, but it has no grounding in reality. If he really didn't want Marvel publishing anything about Alpha at all you wouldn't see 1 issue let alone 5.

Do you really think that Joe hates this book so much that he purposely greenlit a series with the INTENT on using it to screw with the hardcore fans and ultimately crush their spirits? Really? You seriously think he has a personal vendetta against us so deep that it's worth wasting money and creator time on?

I never said he hated Omega Flight, nor that he was using it to crush Alpha Flight fans' spirits. I also didn't say that he had any sort of vendetta against us...Only that he's not very respectful of AF/AF's creator and the AF fan-community and that he treats AF like a joke. A lack of respect does not equal a vendetta. Joe certainly doesn't have faith enough in Omega to make the series an on-going. You mentioned us miscontruing things said by Quesada...You've just miscontrued most of what I said in my original post.

The fact of the matter is that whether Omega was greenlit as a 5 issue mini or a 10,000 issue epic, if the sales at the end of issue 5 arn't enough to warrant an issue 6 then it wouldn't happen one way or the other.

Big duh.

Dana

[Adam]

[quote="cmdrkoenig67"]

BTW...What "Alpha-related stuff" are you referring to in the Civil War/Initiative books? Do you mean Omega-related?

I'm equating the two, and maybe that's why we're splitting hairs with each other. For all intents and purposes Omega is Alpha for me, I'm taking Oeming's "Omega is the last chance for Alpha" comment at face value. If this tanks I honestly can't see them trying another Alpha-related series for years.

The point I've been trying to make (and I don't mean to have it aimed at you in particular) is that the negativity constant directed towards Marvel never leads to anything positive. Catharsis aside, it just seems like bitterness and that's not the best way for the community to help grow the audience for Alpha/Omega books.

I don't want to make drag this argument out anymore so I'll bow out of the next round.

Cheers.

[cmdrkoenig67]

[quote="Adam"]

BTW...What "Alpha-related stuff" are you referring to in the Civil War/Initiative books? Do you mean Omega-related?

I'm equating the two, and maybe that's why we're splitting hairs with each other. For all intents and purposes Omega is Alpha for me, I'm taking Oeming's "Omega is the last chance for Alpha" comment at face value. If this tanks I honestly can't see them trying another Alpha-related series for years.

The point I've been trying to make (and I don't mean to have it aimed at you in particular) is that the negativity constant directed towards Marvel never leads to anything positive. Catharsis aside, it just seems like bitterness and that's not the best way for the community to help grow the audience for Alpha/Omega books.

I don't want to make drag this argument out anymore so I'll bow out of the next round.

Cheers.

Were/are we arguing? We do disagree...And you misinterpreted most of what I had said...That exchange hardly qualifies as an argument. As for helping a fan-community grow? It takes more than one type of person to do that...Would you rather we be all clones?

I also equate Omega Flight with being Alpha Flight, Vol.4. Marvel folks (meaning both Oeming and Quesada) have flip-flopped on what exactly Omega Flight is...They have referred to it both as AF's last chance and also not being Alpha Flight. As another esteemed member here stated (I'm forgetting who, please forgive my terrible memory)...It's really unfair to leave Alpha Flight out of the equation, if indeed...It is their last chance.

Dana

[Adam]

Were/are we arguing? We do disagree...And you misinterpreted most of what I had said...That exchange hardly qualifies as an argument.

We're probably not, that's just my own insecurity talking. I'm always worried I've offended someone (does that sound Canadian or what?).

I also equate Omega Flight with being Alpha Flight, Vol.4. Marvel folks (meaning both Oeming and Quesada) have flip-flopped on what exactly Omega Flight is...They have referred to it both as AF's last chance and also not being Alpha Flight. As another esteemed member here stated (I'm forgetting who, please forgive my terrible memory)...It's really unfair to leave Alpha Flight out of the equation, if indeed...It is their last chance.

I think that internally at Marvel Omega is regarded as Alpha Vol 4, and if it fails then "Alpha" will have another black mark against it. However since the perception exists that the market won't support a pure-Alpha book the outward face of it is that it's "not Alpha."

Let's just hope the Classic trade sells like hotcakes and shows that people really do love the originals.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I think that internally at Marvel Omega is regarded as Alpha Vol 4, and if it fails then "Alpha" will have another black mark against it. However since the perception exists that the market won't support a pure-Alpha book the outward face of it is that it's "not Alpha."

Let's just hope the Classic trade sells like hotcakes and shows that people really do love the originals.

I'll be buying it (Alpha Flight Classic), definitely.

Dana