Tom Brevoort Against Fight For The Flight

[-K-M-]

KM, do you have a link to that, I've just read through the latest 'Joe Fridays' and can't find any reference to it?

Naaaa it hasn't made the main Joe Q questions, he asked it in the main thread where readers post questions and then Joe answers them in his main interview.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthrea...=99093&page=12

[DelBubs]

Thanks KM, I wonder if it'll get a response

[Corvus]

Okay. Lots of Tom bashing here. I know you dont know Tom and its easy to take what he says and change it to mean what you would like it to mean, but I promise you he is not being a jerk or whatever. There is a context for everything and you dont have the whole picture. Please stop the Tom bashing.
If he deserved it I would be silent
M!

Sorry Mr O, but we can only judge Tom by the way he presents himself to the public. And frankly, he's presented himself in an immature, unprofessional manner thats bad for both Marvel and potentially for sales of Omega Flight.

His evident contempt for his customers is making me reconsider whether or not I want to spend my money on any Marvel products in the future. I would think someone who is a professional Editor could at least be bothered to get their facts correct before they had a public tantrum.

[Obsidian3d]

While I was unable to read the post on Tom's blog (site was unavailable at the time), there have been several quotes posted here that are less than what I'd call professional. I'll not comment on them beyond that, because of my not having read the article.

I will say however that most of the people associated with this website have been at least (mostly) polite in voicing their opinions and disappointment over the recent treatment of Alpha Flight and the upcoming Omega Flight. I can't speak for other fans on other sites and how they behave, because I simply don't know! But, the simple fact is that if you don't respect your customers, eventually you'll lose them. We're simply trying to show Marvel that they have our support for Omega Flight. Bad mouthing us in any way is certainly unprofessional, regardless of who it comes from within the company. The same can be said of us stating our own opinions towards the company and their creators.

We simply want to be treated fairly and with respect, which I think a lot of us feel we haven't gotten lately. I would cite New Avengers #16 as a good example, which was followed by the total lack of explanation of what exactly happened or WHO died in that issue. Rather we got veiled hints and tongue-in-cheek promises about what was coming. That was eventually revealed to be an ONGOING series entitled Omega Flight. And of course we were all very excited about the news.

Soon thereafter we find out through the solicitation for Omega Flight that it's been downsized to a 5 issue mini series. Financial decisions aside, I for one don't feel that I'm being treated fairly as a fan of Alpha and Omega or as a customer...which will translate into me me buying less Marvel material. Truth is that the only thing I plan on buying for the foreseeable future will be Omega Flight. If that only lasts five issues, well so be it.

[DelBubs]

If we're going to be brutally honest here, then I think it's wise to point out that the 'Save the Flight' people and supporters, probably come, in the majority, from here and 'The Alpha Flight Message Boards'. A hardcore of about 150 (if that). We are that fanatical that we constantly buy the product and fight for it's survival, even when presented with the abomination that was Vol 3. To the rest of comicdom we must look pretty pathetic, clamouring for a glimpse of what made AF so special in the first place.

I mean, we even accepted Lobdell here, even after he described AF as '3rd Rate Avengers Wannabee's', because we wanted to see ' the 'Alpha Flight' legend on the cover of a comic.

150/200 people don't make a lot of difference to a company like Marvel. Our sales or lack of won't make a bit of difference. They do know however, that no matter how Mr Breevort portrays us, come April, we'll all be there to pick up x amount of 'Omega Flight #1'.

There use to be a time when hardcore fans where appreciated, now they are a subject of ridicule, fanboys, celler dwellers etc. I can live with that, but still I get bent out of sake over AF. It's just unfortunate that Mr Breevort couldn't realise that there was nothing intended by the 'so called' venomous e-mails he got (not from 'Save the Flight'), but the need for Flight fans to have something to look forward to each month. I'll still be there in April to pick up #1. It's just unfortunate that it will be tempered with the realisation that my support of the book is considered such an irritation.

[Mokole]

I have to agree Del. Most of Fight for the Flight support comes from us but then it would, as most internetters will find this site easily.

But the interest we generate will help. People will buy the book who are Alpha Flight fans. USAgent fans and Beta Ray Bill fans will too. New readers who want a Canadian hero team (can't beat having Guardian images to show around!). OK, Arachne fans won't add up to much but they help. Oeming fans, Kolins fans, art fans, hero fans.

I'd be surprised if the April release doesn't sell 50,000. If the book is as good as we think, it'll sell like that for months. The art will be excellent, Oeming should deliver the goods on the stories. I have faith that we will like it and so wll tens of thousands of others. Will Marvel care, really?

After all, we bought v3 to get it converted to a serious book, not loony. I myself sent several letters and emails over the 12 issues expressing just that sentiment, and made posts about it too.

Omega Flight has a much better chance except that it's not an ongoing, now that's where our Fight begins, not a change of direction. Bendis, Millar, Schmidt, Cebulski are known to support Oeming's work, that helps. We're not crying out in the wilderness.

Cheers, Everyone!

[Ben]

Yes, at this point it is mostly us hardcore fans, however, that won't be the case for long. That's why I wanted to have everything in place early, ready for when it hits the shelves, and there is an influx of people who loved what they read and want more. If he thinks the emails are annoying now, just wait 'till April!

Ben

[Le Messor]

I remember Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?. In that novel, there were two distinct police agencies side-by-side in the city, had been for several years.

They didn't know about each other.

Which gets me wondering; were Tom Brevoort's comments about Fight For The Flight? He never mentioned specifically. And what he described wasn't Ben's site.

Consider: I don't know how true this is, but:
Tom Brevoort got a lot of venomous, anti-Marvel letters about the mini-fying of Omega.
Tom Brevoort got a lot of letters from Fight For The Flight about the mini-fying of Omega.
If both these statements are true, could you really blame him for confusing the two?


That said, two words: Customer Relations.

Call it bashing if you will, but his blog post sucks at that.
Tact, diplomacy; there's ways to say what you want to say without alienating your customer base and looking immature.

"Please don't send hate-filled emails." is one suggestion.

(My pun-ished mind also gets amused when he pans our 'venom-filled' letters, and praises Spidergirl; led, apparently, by 'Venom'. I amuse easily. Ooh, shiny thing.)

- Le Messor
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

[SephirothsKiller]

Mike, you've been really been a class act on these boards, so I'll honor your request to not do any Brevoort bashing and give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he's a really nice guy and just has trouble communicating or temper issues.

I will however say that this is what his comments meant to me:

It does sadden me when editors feel entitled to mock every hardcore fan of a series. We all have lives outside of these boards and this fandom and while we and enjoy the stories of Alpha Flight and are eagerly looking forward to Omega Flight, it is in no way essential to the lives of anybody on the boards. The successful sales of marvel comics is however essential to the livelihood of people such as Mr. Brevoort. This is not to say I begrudge him for taking for granted the hardcore fanbase, in a world where it is ten times more expensive to get new customers than to keep old customers it must seem nice to know that there is a section of the population you can rely on. In the case of Alpha fans we make up only a small section of marvel's hardcore fanbase, and they could easily ignore us. We are not important, and I understand this, comics is after all about the business first and the art second. What I do not understand is the pejorative use which "hardcore" has come to attain in the comics industry. In the past I thought that the word was seen as a negative only by those who scorned comics as something read by geeks, but now it seems like the word is being made mocked by the very people who subsist off the industry. This saddens me, as I personally have always regarded the word "hardcore" as being synonymous with "loyal." When did loyalty become a pejorative?

- Peace.

[Le Messor]

When did loyalty become a pejorative?

On the 12th of August, 1976. There was a memo.

[SmurfInABlender]

well guys.. this did it, took me this long to come out from being a reader of these forums to well one who posts.

Let me give you a background of myself for those of you who don't knwo me, which is well, everyone.

I was always an X-men cartoon fan as a kid but never got into comics, though I picked up the Ultimate Guide to the X-men last april. Never really reading comics i thought hey.. I have an entire summer before i venture off to college and I won't have much to do, lets see if I find any comics interesting. So I picked up a couple graphic novels at the book store (Legion of Superheroes, Green Lantern/Green Arrow) But I continued to read through the Guide to X-men characters when I came upon two interesting Ideas. Excaliber and Alpha Flight. In reading about these teams I was intreegued, but more by this Canadian team then the British team. Therefore i went on ebay an got the first 22 comics of volume 1. I fell inlove. I now, less then a year later, have read volume 2, sifted through volume three even though i hated it. and am now on 64 of volume 1. I have become a hardcore Alpha Flight Fan and I just got into comics.

I already have noticed when a company does not beleive the title is to do well or is doing well they mix names to get recognition (I noticed this when Supergirl joined the Legion of Superheroes.. that is also when i stopped buying the title) But Omega Flight? I have never been a Captain America Fan but what I've read about U.S. Agent I love his more rebelious tendency. and Archne seems more interesting and less of a joke then "spider-girl" or "supergirl" or any of those "lets turn a popular character into a woman and see what we can make from it"

Yes this comment made by Tom won't stop me from buying Omega Flight, or Multiple Issues of Omega Flight. But Being new to Comics I have been wanting to stop buying old comics (I'm reading Namor and Alpha flight as of late and have read plenty of Graphic novels) and start buying new titles in order to help the comic industry. Here is the thing... after reading that, I feel less connected to Marvel as a whole. Where as I want to read Omega Flight I will look for new titles from other places rather then Marvel. So here is the problem with his alienation. Yes it won't hurt Omega Flight in the long run it might even help it. Though, This will hurt sales on other products that I'm not so fond of. Guess its off to read Checkmate...

A New But Already Hardcore Fan,
-Jonathan

[-K-M-]

Excellent post SmurfInABlender, and welcome to the board.

[Switchgearman]

As usual, here I come jumping in late...

Wow! Seems like a lot has gone on recently & the responses from Tom B's blog is just amazing.

Top marks to Delbubs for his excellent & well-constructed analysis of AND response to Tom's blog - I think few could've said it better.

Additionally, I just have to respond to Tom's comments about people buying an ongoing series or limited series, i.e.:
"... if you care enough about OMEGA FLIGHT to send in an irate, venom-filled letter, then you're not going to not buy it simply because it's a limited series."

I think this misses the point completely. The fact of the matter is, we die-hard AF fans want an ongoing series. We want to be able to enjoy our fave super-team month after month after month, not just for 4 months (i.e., that's the time span between 5 issues). It is also about our passion for collecting & more specifically, collecting comics.

It is fine & an absolutely collectible & highly desirable mini-series when it's a mega event & is finite or somewhat finite story-wise. Like Civil War. Like Justice. Like Marvels. But if it's about a team of superheroes with no major event going on, then a limited series just doesn't cut it for an AF fan & a comic collector. Other than partly satisfying our rabid need for AF (I'd have to say barely), what is the point of releasing a LS (from the fans' perspective). Testing the water to see if it can justify itself as an ongoing? If it's a LS with no major event or consequences to the other Marvel characters, who would buy except the die-hard fans? How does that work in testing the water? Making a few bucks for Marvel? That I understand. How about making a few bucks for Marvel month after month after month?

I think Mr. Tom Brevoort is probably doing what he can with what he's been given but as of now, he belongs to the Hall of Totally Missing the Point.

[SmurfInABlender]

some one on a budget might buy it, I mean I bought the entire Union Jack miniseries because it looked interesting and would be a good read.. I wouldn't mind if that became ongoing either.. but you know

[Banshee]

Seems to me that Marvel publishes in a democracy. Deleting Bens response is just plain rude. TB can respond, but delete?? Ben's response was not offensive.

Marvel seems to be taking on a Civil War 'mindset'. Will I have to register as a law abiding, God fearing good christian family man to read their books or comment on their blogs????

Ridiculouso(as Hermione Grainger might say).