Alpha Death Revisited

[Flightpath07]

Ok, I think I've got pms, but I can understand some writers lack some respect to AF, but you still got to remember AF is a bunch of canadian heroes own by an american company and no one asked them to create that comic, for me just for making that serie and a 3rd and almost 4th serie is a sign of respect.

Just using them, is respect, because they at least got the attention of the writers. Like everything in life respect got to start within. So my canadian friend, stop looking at the neibor (sp?) to get respect. Create your own comic, buy canadian product, get it exported, then you will get respect, not the other way around.

That's why I like that Degrassi comic book Ed was working on, It's a nice exemple of what is respect. I just hope canadian would do more of those projects and stop waiting for our american friends to do something canadian. Last I check, Canada was not part of the state.

yeah, must be the pms.

LOL.
Yeah, must be the pms thing.

Seriously, though. Altho Marvel is owned by Americans, John Byrne created Alpha Flight, and John was a Canadian. I did not see any other (American) writer creating a Canadian super hero team, or convincing a US company to publish them.
But what has happened to them since John Byrne left? Lots. Some for the better (perhaps), some for the worst (for those of you who hated volume 3 and thought it was a farce), and some almost obscenely rude (the off-panel death scene).
Would anybody in Quebec object if an American company took over Capitaine Kebec and then killed him off?
I've never even been to Quebec, but i think i would be able to feel the pain of the Quebecois if that were to happen...
Point understood?

[Flightpath07]

That would be a terrific idea, and if Omega does well enough to warrant a full series, a mini or series of minis of untold stories of Alpha Flight would be a neat deal.

I wasn't really talking so much about stories that were untold, altho i might have mentioned that. It was a respect issue. Treat them like real human beings. Show us the emotional side of death, don't just kill them and then move on without a care in the world. I want to see the pain, the loss, the grief. I want to see it for at least as long as I feel it. Something that makes it real, makes it meaningful, rather than just makes it over.
I don't want to move on; if they are really dead, then i want to wallow in it!

[syvalois]

Seriously, though. Altho Marvel is owned by Americans, John Byrne created Alpha Flight, and John was a Canadian. I did not see any other (American) writer creating a Canadian super hero team, or convincing a US company to publish them.

From my understanding, Byrne did not wanted to write AF, It's Marvel that asked him to do it. I do believe that being written by a canadian did helped the serie get the "special feeling", but the way american comics works, the characters are own by the company, not the creators. If that was the case, you would never had seen AF again after #28 juging by what Byrne said.

Would anybody in Quebec object if an American company took over Capitaine Kebec and then killed him off?

Point understood?

Actually not really. My point is that AF is own by american to do as they like, even if created by a canadian, that do not change. If you want to be respected your own comic in canada then export it, I mean export it, not sell it to the americans. Like Marvel is exporting AF to canadians.

Now for Capitaine Kebec. I don't really see why the americans would want to buy it. I would be more angry at the fact it's been bought by americans then the character been killed of by them. Actually, Capitaine Kébec would deserved it. It's like Marvel selling Captaine America to an Iraq comic company.


Plus, if you look
here
You would see that Capitaine Kébec is a big joke and laugh about anything. It's so Québécois no one could write it. And like I say in my signature, I never read it, but like the concept of it.

In most cases, you forget that those characters are not only canadians, they are Marvel's characters. Northstar been killed too, turn into a villain and I don't know what's going to happen, do I think they are disrespectful with him because he is canadian/quebecer? no, I think they are ignorant in many cases, but not disrespectful. I may not like the story, but writers write what they think would be good and sometimes it's not.

Did the off panel AF dead was lame? Probably (I did not read it yet). But I think the writers saw them as characters first and not really as Canadians.

If you want canadian respect, create your canadian character to a canadian company, export it and never sell the rights to anyone.

[Flightpath07]

Syvalois,

Good points, and a great link.
Thanks!

[syvalois]

It's like Marvel selling Captaine America to an Iraq comic company.

I just reread mesylf and thought that sentence was really bad. Sorry if I offended anyone. I just meant that there are some stuff that can't be sell. Like Captaine America need to belong to an american company and nothing else. Iraq or Canada or Mexico, Great Brittain too, that do not make sence.

[Barnacle13]

I think you make a great point Sylvie. Why would an American want to buy Capitaine Kebec? Why would an Iraqi want to buy Captain America? Why would Del want to buy Alpha Flight? For each individual it is a personal choice. Some like the art, others the story, still others fall in love with the characters and make them a part of their family. It's really hard to say what motivates us. Maybe it's the fact that the characters are different from us, or just like us despite their differences. Maybe an Iraqi would want to buy Captain America to see there is humanity in Americans. Maybe Americans would buy Alpha because they get that sense of family. I don't know. All I can tell you is that for this American, I'd take the Canadian heroes in Alpha Flight over any of the American titles any day. If Capitaine Kebec were as endearing to me as AF, I'd buy that too. And his death would bother me just as much if I invested as much emotionally as I have with AF. Of course I'd have to learn French first, but even old dogs can learn a new trick every once in awhile.

[Effexxor]

As an American who really wishes she was Canadian, I'm slightly offended that AF 'belongs' to Canada. But as a bisexual who feels a kinship with gay characters... I totally understand where you're coming from.

It's odd how we connect to characters that we 'feel for'. I mean, I probably wouldn't like Karolina from 'Runaways' as much if she wasn't a lesbian, because then she probably would have just been another typical ditzy blonde. But because she was going through the same issues that I was, she became real. She transcended from just being a blonde airhead to being someone that I could picture myself as being friends with and at the very least, someone I could admire. So I understand why AF has a special meaning to you as a Canadian.

I love the characters too. Heather is practically a role model for me in terms of how I want to be. She's capable, smart, caring and even though she's gone through hell, she still picks herself up and goes on through life. I love that JP's blunt way of speaking. He shows no fear and is proud of who he is, dangit. And I even like Louis Jr., because I totally understand the feeling of desperately trying to be something that you're not so that you can seem 'worthy'. I cried too when I got New Avengers, and I bawled like a baby when JP was killed.

But I get where you're comin from, really. Because even though I know that straight people can connect with gay characters, I still have this knee jerk reaction that they can't understand 'my characters' like I can, because they haven't lived through it.

[Flightpath07]

So I understand why AF has a special meaning to you as a Canadian.

Yeah, there was a sense of real pride when Alpha Flight originally started up.
For years, Canadians had read about American heroes. And we had loved them. But some of us wondered what kind of universe Marvel and other companies had created, where almost all of the heroes were in the US of A. It made no sense. Except, of course, from a $ standpoint. Less people in Canada, less people to sell to, so let's keep pumping out the American heroes and making our money.

Really, the thing that made AF so special, beyond the care and vision and love that John Byrne pumped into them at the beginning, was the fact that they were all Canadians, all in Canada, all serving Canada. And we had nobody else to defend our country. So our hearts swelled up with pride.
Finally, we had our own team. Finally. At last.

That is one reason that, although I look forward to Omega Flight, I know that it will never be Alpha Flight. As long as American heroes on the team outnumber Canadian heroes, and as long as there is any doubts about who will run the team (a Canadian leader versus an American one), and as long as it goes on to be a book for Americans that talks about America and America's problems...it may be a great book, and I may buy it (WILL buy it), but it will never be Alpha Flight.
Change happens, and we must except it. And I look forward to what this comic will bring to the table.
But this is OMEGA Flight. Not Alpha Flight.
So I am still going to hope and pray that, sometime in the future, Alpha Flight gets reborn.

By the way, thanks for your kind words regarding wishing you were a Canadian. That's the sort of thing that reminds us up here of our kinship with you Americans, and makes us love and appreciate y'all.

[Effexxor]

By the way, thanks for your kind words regarding wishing you were a Canadian. That's the sort of thing that reminds us up here of our kinship with you Americans, and makes us love and appreciate y'all.

What's not to like? National healthcare, a sensible legal stance on marijuana, rights for every human no matter what and living wages for teachers... man, it's like a dream. I hope to move to Saskatchewan some day, if you couldn't tell.

I can't help but wonder if there's a political subtext to Americans being on Omega Flight. It would be more than ironic if they put Americans onto the team to 'make the team good', and yet have it turn out so that Omega Flight succeeds because of their Canadians, not despite their Canadians. Kind of like how a lot of Americans tend to think that Canada is a good county because they mooch off of America and are Americas backwards cousin, even though they're really succeeding despite America's crappy policies.

[Canucklehead]

What's not to like? National healthcare, a sensible legal stance on marijuana, rights for every human no matter what and living wages for teachers... man, it's like a dream.

Living is about all you can afford as a teacher, at least in Vancouver lol. I shared a crappy basement appartment with 3 people, sharing the $1400/m rent, making $10/h teaching 4 college classes 5 days a week. If you're a teacher and plan to move to a different city, take it from me, research and make sure you do your homework!

[SephirothsKiller]

Ok, I think I've got pms, but I can understand some writers lack some respect to AF, but you still got to remember AF is a bunch of canadian heroes own by an american company and no one asked them to create that comic, for me just for making that serie and a 3rd and almost 4th serie is a sign of respect.

Just using them, is respect, because they at least got the attention of the writers. Like everything in life respect got to start within. So my canadian friend, stop looking at the neibor (sp?) to get respect. Create your own comic, buy canadian product, get it exported, then you will get respect, not the other way around.

That's why I like that Degrassi comic book Ed was working on, It's a nice exemple of what is respect. I just hope canadian would do more of those projects and stop waiting for our american friends to do something canadian. Last I check, Canada was not part of the state.

yeah, must be the pms.

Yah, that Degrassi manga was/is? really top quality and enjoyable art. The story lines aren't my thing, but I recognize quality when I see it. I heard that the original pitch for the show was an illustration by Ed in that style.



The only way to have successful Canadian owned Comics would be A) To have gov't funding, or B) to attach them to an indie label, ala Scott Pilgrim, (go read it!) But when it comes right down to it, breaking a major "universe" that can compete with Marvel/DC universes is unrealistic imo. The comics market is saturated sadly enough, because not enough people respect it.


I also don't think that making a 3rd and 4th series is a sign of respect. Its a sign of "I wonder if we can make money off this?" In the past it may have been a sign of respect, but I haven't seen any signs so far that the marvel EXECs are into the respect game.

[Mokole]

What's not to like? National healthcare, a sensible legal stance on marijuana, rights for every human no matter what and living wages for teachers... man, it's like a dream.

Living is about all you can afford as a teacher, at least in Vancouver lol. I shared a crappy basement appartment with 3 people, sharing the $1400/m rent, making $10/h teaching 4 college classes 5 days a week. If you're a teacher and plan to move to a different city, take it from me, research and make sure you do your homework!

I teach in a small town, 3 kids tagging along, and pay just over $200 in rent. But they'll close my school down this spring so I hope to find another small town to live forever in.

Fast fact: In my time at this school we have a 65% success rate in getting kids to university (and staying there, zero dropouts ), while our division average is 17%. Add in tech schools and apprenticeships and we rise to 92%, division averages 23%. And still they will close our schools and ship off our kids, not close poorly-operated schooled and ship 'em to us. Yes, we are the #1 academc school in our division, which really rankles teachers at other schools

[SephirothsKiller]

What's not to like? National healthcare, a sensible legal stance on marijuana, rights for every human no matter what and living wages for teachers... man, it's like a dream.

Living is about all you can afford as a teacher, at least in Vancouver lol. I shared a crappy basement appartment with 3 people, sharing the $1400/m rent, making $10/h teaching 4 college classes 5 days a week. If you're a teacher and plan to move to a different city, take it from me, research and make sure you do your homework!

Thats what you get for living in the city with the highest property values in Canada.

Just kidding, I think I've mentioned this before, I worship Vancouver from afar. I've never been, and have built it up into a magical place of wonder, with fit people everywhere and lots of happyness befitting the UN's number one big city in the world. I convienently leave out the bit about the high amount of crime, the rain, and the suicides. (Oh UBC... How I long for thee...)

[Effexxor]

What's not to like? National healthcare, a sensible legal stance on marijuana, rights for every human no matter what and living wages for teachers... man, it's like a dream.

Living is about all you can afford as a teacher, at least in Vancouver lol. I shared a crappy basement appartment with 3 people, sharing the $1400/m rent, making $10/h teaching 4 college classes 5 days a week. If you're a teacher and plan to move to a different city, take it from me, research and make sure you do your homework!

Already did my homework! Hence why I wanna go to Saskatchewan. 34k versus 23k here in Nebraska, and the cost of living is a LOT cheaper than living in Alberta. Besides, I like my flat plains. Mountains are too... mountain-y. Rocks annoy me.

And as for shutting down schools and such, that's why I am so not going to teach in a small town. With how painfully liberal I am, it'd be safer to avoid the sheltered farm kids. Trust me, I go to college with farm kids and it's painful. I had a guy my age tell me that his favorite minority group was the FRENCH. Apparently it's because they're classy, they helped us out in the Revolutionary war and because he likes the sound of their language.

I was just surprised to find out that the French are a minority group.

[Flightpath07]

Okay, this is way off topic as far as this Forum goes,
but since the issue of schoolteachers was brought up,

if you wanna make money as a schoolteacher, anywhere in the Western world, then I would seriously suggest teaching in a private school. As with all jobs, there are perks and non-perks too.
My wife is a teacher's aid and certified education assistant - that means that she works with handicapped and challenged kids, and as well helps to teahc and work with the rest of the class (we are talking about handicapped kids that are integrated into "normal" classrooms, of course). She has fullt-ime work (except in sumemrs and school holidays, and makes about $27,000 year.
That ain't that bad. Not top-notch, but not bad either.

Problems with that, are the "liberal lifestyle" thing - most, if not all, private schools are connected with religious organizations of one sort or another. Nothnig against that, of course, but not known to be all that over-accepting of liberalism in lifestyle.