Alpha Death Revisited

[SephirothsKiller]

I'm pretty sure innocence is one of his powers... Or something like that... Unswavering good.

[Effexxor]

Look again; he has no such world. He's just the world's leading expert on denial. He could teach Howard Carter a thing or two.

That's true. Denial has been his way of dealing with his father's abuse. However, something has to break that. And frankly, seeing the rest of your team (hopefully) almost slaughtered, that should do. Also, put against such an incredibly powerful foe without Thunder had to make him feel incredibly helpless. To not be able to protect the only person who's ever looked beyond his facade and yet still loved him for it, would foster a horrific sense of helplessness and anger. It would make sense for him to turn to the Guardian suit, not just as a way to avenge his wife but to also prove to himself and his father that he is worthy to exist.

See, what interests me about Louis is that he has such potential to be a fascinating character. He earnestly, honestly yearns to be a super hero, to help people in need and protect Canada. Even though all that he's really had in his life was his beloved brother's slow and painful death and his father's verbal and physical abuse, he keeps on truckin'. There's real faith in this kid that it is his duty to help people and make the world better, and that's a rare thing. Also, he's absolutely selfless. Even though Thunder is his only real powerful way to fight, he sends Thunder off to get help. And even without Thunder, he still is a member of Alpha Flight, even though he is nowhere near as strong or resilient as the other members. The fact is, this guy knows that he has a very real possibility of dying, and yet he continues to try.

And the other thing is that his drive to help and protect really makes sense for him to become Guardian. I know that a name is just a name, but that would be a very powerful thing for him to go from being 'Major Mapleleaf', i.e. the younger weaker version of his father, to 'Guardian', i.e. strong protector of Canada and the world.

Granted, there's no way that it'll happen. Louis will disappear to D class character that no one remembers, and that's fine because a few of us will remember him, but he'll never return to real fame. But in my mind, I'll have that idea and go 'Man, that would be awesome.'

[kozzi24]

I don't mind Mac being dead because he should have stayed that way.

Shaman's death eliminates some redundancy on the team, and he can be more useful as "An Ancient One" to Talisman. Talisman is a more approachable character for new readers that a "50 - 60 yo widowed Indian guy."

My only objection to Puck 2 and MML death was their inclusion. If they hadn't been seen, their existence could be written off that all of Volume 3 was Walter's dreaming. The fix from NA#16 is that Walter was dreaming in part from people he knew existed, this Zuhza woman and MML, and they had been recruited into whatever passes for Canada's Alpha program these days.

Sasqua=tch, thankfully alive.

Hopefully, Puck is also alive.

More hopefully, Heather is also alive. I'd like to say that I can't think of Marvel TPTB leaving a newborn an orphan, but I really didn't think that they'd kill Shaman either, because it opens them up to finger pointing as Indian killers. They've had five prominent Native American heroes, Thunderbirds 1 & 2, Red Wolf, Shaman and Talisman, and have killed 2 of them.

It just seems to me that leaving Sas Puck and Heather alive would re-establish the team closest to who should be around considering most of Alpha's often convoluted history. People who haven't followed every series might see that Wolverine 173 appearance and say, "aren't Snowbird and Mac/Guardian dead?" while an Alpha appearance with Heather as Guardian leading Snowbird, Sas, Puck and the twins would seem more seamless.

[Snowsquatch]

I don't mind if Mac and Heather are dead, provided that someone with AF history is donning the suit (like Northstar or Jefferies). I'm among those who would prefer if Mac never returned, but I'm willing to accept the story as is. I would love to see Heather alive and leading AF in the red suit and visor again, but I'm flexible.

I'd prefer Shaman and MML2 stayed dead, but for different reasons.

I can live with Puck and Puckette being dead, but really, I'd like to hear about Puckette's origins. We can guess that Puckette is the daughter of a Tibetan woman, conceived after Eugene trapped Raazer, with all of Puck's skills and powers (including full languages) being passed on. I'd also like to hear the circumstances of why Eugene was an absent father, and how Zuzha came to be raised in Montreal. And what happened to her mother?

I can live with Rudy's death, but not Nemesis! And I soooo want to hear a definitive history of her life. Who created the sword? Why is she bound to it? Why was she in Boston? Was Amelia Weatherly an assumed name while she hide there? Why was she so committed to destroying her father? So many unanswered questions....

I've assumed Mar was Marrina reborn, and her gender would become clear following puberty. I assume she is still alive. But I'm not too interested in her re-joining AF. She's more interesting as a potential villain than hero.

Thunder? I'm sure the League of Super-pets was a flippant joke.

Anyways, I've always assumed those last panels depicting Zuzha and MML2 married with a kid and Rudy and Amelia dead were yet-to-happen events in the future. (Possibly never-to-happen, now.) Except for Jack and Narya together, which makes sense, and gives her a place to be.

[kozzi24]

If Northstar were to don the suit, it needs to be explained why his bio-energies no longer short it out as een circa #1 or so. He had light powers without Aurora (still, I think...that's always fuzzy and inconsistent) so theoretically, the suit wouldn't work if he was wearing it.

The scene of the twins shorting out the suit was one of the subtler characteristics the Byrne era Northstar was given (inclusing in Chrystar) that was overlooked in later eras: he was always a good tactician.

[Snowsquatch]

If Northstar were to don the suit, it needs to be explained why his bio-energies no longer short it out as een circa #1 or so. He had light powers without Aurora (still, I think...that's always fuzzy and inconsistent) so theoretically, the suit wouldn't work if he was wearing it.

I'm assuming that Northstar would only be wearing the costume, but using his own powers (speed, flight, and the thermal blasts seen in recent appearances). He's not actually wearing the E-M suit that Mac designed.

[Flightpath07]

Don't mean to oversimplify things, but it seems to me that if Sasq has survived (and it seems that he appears in OF, altho we are still not sure if he joins or not), then would it not make sense that our angst and worries and queries about who survived and who did not would all be held within his memories? I mean, geez, Walter would know (a) who was there, and (b) who survived.
Walter would hold the key to the questions about temporal copies, Alphans on space missions, and life and death of those we hold dear.

Walter is the key. And since Oeming and friends know this...

...you would have to think that all will be explained to us at some time. I mean, unless he has amnesia or something lame like that, i'd have ot think he would talk about it with his new team. Even the newbies to Canada would have questions for him, would they not?

All will be explained.

Unfortunately, there are some fears that go along with that explanation...

I am not so sure that i am looking forward to hearing what he has to say. I mean, if Walter says "_____ is dead , i know, i saw them dead at my feet" , well, then we KNOW, don't we? But in that knowing, we lose a very important part of us forever, other than memories.
Alpha feels more like family to me , than just heroes. Many of them are people i have grown up with, trusted, cheered for, and yes even loved. I am not sure that I am yet ready to hear about who is gone forever. Maybe we could somehow, maybe we are better off never knowing? Maybe it is better left a moot point, a taboo subject, until somebody somewhere who understands our pain can reveal to us the forthcoming existence of the new Alpha Flight ongoing series, wherein appears all of our loved heroes, alive and well?
...sigh...
I guess the mourning process has been harder on me than i would have expected. I never even got invited to the funeral! Perhaps i am just not ready for all of this yet. I am not ready to give up. I don't want a rebirth of a team of deaders, i want the deaders to stand up and take their bows and laugh and cry with us all, and join us for a round of Molsons.
Yeah, the mourning process has been hard for me. I do not even know anybody else who knows who Alpha Flight is! I've had nobody to lean on, and i am still struggling with the emotional turmoil.
Makes me really question sometimes if i am even ready to enjoy another series (OF)...
I seriously hope this new series pulls a few rabbits out of hats for us longtime fans. But, now that it is only a mini-series, somehow i really really doubt it...
I am just not sure that i am ready to be told that they are really dead?
Anybody out there feel like that?

[Ottawa Renegade]

Fret not, friend! The X-Men went a LONG time saying Jean Grey was dead!

Sasquatch might say it, but he might be wrong.

[Flightpath07]

Thanks.
But it isn't just Mac. It's everybody.
We don't have much up here in Canada. We don't get much respect from our American cousins, not even in the comics world. But AF was always ours. If you were an American, you could read it and enjoy it (we encouraged that, actually), but you could never own it - these were OUR heroes.
Now, they are just carion.
On so many levels, that is so wrong!

[Ottawa Renegade]

Thanks.
But it isn't just Mac. It's everybody.
We don't have much up here in Canada. We don't get much respect from our American cousins, not even in the comics world. But AF was always ours. If you were an American, you could read it and enjoy it (we encouraged that, actually), but you could never own it - these were OUR heroes.
Now, they are just carion.
On so many levels, that is so wrong!

Oh, I agree, and this is why the death scene in Avengers was so bloody insulting. In hindsight, it might have turned into a blessing in disguise (not that I'm grateful for it, because I don't feel for a moment that that was ever the intention. If it turns into a good thing, it's by accident).

But once the shock wears off you realise that almost no one stays dead. Not even the most "celebrated" of deaths. I hear Captain Marvel is returning. They all do.

So are they just carion? Meh...maybe for a while...Snowbird seemed dead and gone, Mac's constantly brought back...and I certainly can't get riled up over losing Puck2 or Major Maple Leaf.

Hey, three months ago, we all feared Sasquatch was carion. Well, what do you know, here he is again.

I think ultimately you just want them treated with respect and so far it looks like you'll get that (for a few issues, at least).

[Flightpath07]

Yes, RESPECT.
A good word, that one.
I think most of us here would agree that we feel that so far, Marvel has treated them with INDIFFERENCE. And i know that i await to see if they change their tune, or not.
It isn't so much that i desire CLOSURE. I do not necessarily need a forever list of who is dead and who is alive. As i said, i FEAR that more than desire it.
What i really want is for them to be treated with respect. Like they matter. Because, to me and to many others here (sorry for speaking for y'all), they do matter. They're alive; not as in "they're not dead", but in a sense of they were created by Byrne and others and they have been given a life of their own that must be respected, not ended with a careless thought.
Heck, i'd like to see eight or ten issues of Sasq sitting around reminiscing about AF and all their adventures, their qualities as human beings, their friendships. That would at least show the respect i am talking about.

[Barnacle13]

Thanks.
But it isn't just Mac. It's everybody.
We don't have much up here in Canada. We don't get much respect from our American cousins, not even in the comics world. But AF was always ours. If you were an American, you could read it and enjoy it (we encouraged that, actually), but you could never own it - these were OUR heroes.
Now, they are just carion.
On so many levels, that is so wrong!

Just so you know there are many of us south of the border (that just doesn't sound right to me) who love Alpha Flight just as dearly. I'll give you the patriotic connection. That's one I cannot lay claim to, but from a personal level, it hurt almost as much as losing my grandmother to read New Avenger#16. I too grew up with Puck (that doesn't sound right either picking on the little bugger like that), and Sas. I was floored when Guardian died the first time. And I went on that vision quest with Shaman and his grandfather's spirit. So yeah they may be YOUR heroes, but their every bit as much a part of my circle of friends. Here's hoping we'll both get to enjoy them for a long time to come once Omega Flight outsells X-Men.

[Flightpath07]

And here is my formal apology for dissing Americans.
I did not diss them here, but diss them I did over the treatment given the "deaths" (fcitional, of course, since they are all alive and well - in space somewhere. right? they are, right? right? anybody?...) of AF.
It is unfair of me, or anybody, to paint all people with the same brush.
To my fellow North Americans (that sounds wrong, too! lol) from the land below mine, all of you who love the Flight, you have my apologies and my respect.
Peace out.

[Ottawa Renegade]

Yes, RESPECT.
A good word, that one.
I think most of us here would agree that we feel that so far, Marvel has treated them with INDIFFERENCE. And i know that i await to see if they change their tune, or not.
It isn't so much that i desire CLOSURE. I do not necessarily need a forever list of who is dead and who is alive. As i said, i FEAR that more than desire it.
What i really want is for them to be treated with respect. Like they matter. Because, to me and to many others here (sorry for speaking for y'all), they do matter. They're alive; not as in "they're not dead", but in a sense of they were created by Byrne and others and they have been given a life of their own that must be respected, not ended with a careless thought.
Heck, i'd like to see eight or ten issues of Sasq sitting around reminiscing about AF and all their adventures, their qualities as human beings, their friendships. That would at least show the respect i am talking about.

That would be a terrific idea, and if Omega does well enough to warrant a full series, a mini or series of minis of untold stories of Alpha Flight would be a neat deal.

[syvalois]

Ok, I think I've got pms, but I can understand some writers lack some respect to AF, but you still got to remember AF is a bunch of canadian heroes own by an american company and no one asked them to create that comic, for me just for making that serie and a 3rd and almost 4th serie is a sign of respect.

Just using them, is respect, because they at least got the attention of the writers. Like everything in life respect got to start within. So my canadian friend, stop looking at the neibor (sp?) to get respect. Create your own comic, buy canadian product, get it exported, then you will get respect, not the other way around.

That's why I like that Degrassi comic book Ed was working on, It's a nice exemple of what is respect. I just hope canadian would do more of those projects and stop waiting for our american friends to do something canadian. Last I check, Canada was not part of the state.

yeah, must be the pms.