Alpha Death Revisited

[Ahab]

I know that this was discussed in length before, but knowing what we think we know now, what is everyone's current theory about who really died in Avengers? There is no question that the end of AF Volume 3 made AF continuity even worse. Then Bendis seems to have confused the issue even more, showing that Puck II & MMJ were still with Alpha, and Snowbird, Centennial, Yukon Jack, Mar, MMJ's horse and Nemesis were not. This would lead you to believe that he treated the ending of Volume 3 as canon. But if that is true, then that brings up the question of whether it was really the original Alphans that died in that battle.
Considering that Oeming is trying to rid AF of all baggage, I can't imagine that he is going to state that those that died were the temporal copies. But if that is the case, will it ever be explained when the originals returned and why certain ones (like Snowbird) weren't present?
I know that none of this thinking is new to anyone on this board, but discussions went on about this long before we knew that Omega Flight was coming. What does everyone think now? And more important, does Oeming know how huge of a continuity issue the death of Alpha is to us? I think it was meant to wipe the slate clean, but it really just made everything worse by how quick and easy it was done...

[Mokole]

I think he understands our continuity issues.
So I think:

Yukon Jack with Snowbird
Nemesis and Centenniel dead?
Mar in Atlantis? (not that I care)
MML and Zuzha dead
Heather dead
Shaman dead
Mac maybe not dead
Sasquatch alive.
Puck dead?

Seems the only dead/alive ones we know are Shaman dead, Sasquatch alive. MML and Zuzha are most lkely dead. Heather, Mac, and Puck? Who knows?

[Effexxor]

I'm absolutely bewildered with the deaths, to tell you the truth. The ending of AF 3 was just so damned confusing. For instance, the fact that Thunder's gone. According to AF3 Thunder went to form the 'League of Super Pets' but that's just so stupid that I've decided that it has to be a joke. And according to the end of AF3, MMjr and Puck II have a son. It would be a little soon for Puck to already have had the child by the time that they were killed, so if we're going by AF3, then there's a decent chance that they survived and will go on to have their kid.

Yukon Jack and Snowbird are supposed to be ruling Yukon Jack's clan. That's my guess of why they aren't there.

Frankly, I don't hold AF3 #13's ending as canon. I just can't. It doesn't make enough sense to me. However, that's the only way to explain why MMjr doesn't have Thunder, because he'd never be without his source of power if he was going into a battle

I have no idea what's going on, frankly. I'm pretty sure Walter's alive, and I hope Puck's still kicking. I also have this dream that MMjr wears the Guardian suit for Omega Flight. I can just picture the fantastic character development that could come from that. MMjr, facing the loss of his first love and most of his idols, would struggle with the total loss of his innocence and 'unadulterated goodness' and could possibly slip into the same neurosis that ended up destroying his father.

It'll never happen, mind you. But I can dream.

[Ottawa Renegade]

I'll steal Mokole's list, except for Mar because not only do I not care either, I'd forgotten he existed.

Yukon Jack with Snowbird - I think if played properly, Yukon Jack could be interesting. If Snowbird returns I wouldn't mind seeing Jack with her, maybe part-time.

Nemesis and Centenniel dead? - Ugh, I certainly hope so for Centennial. Nemesis certainly appeared to be but she seems like the type that could be brought back easily. I think of her almost in the Grendel type that if one dies, another can take her place.

MML and Zuzha - I would have liked to have gotten Zuzha's story. I don't recall her power being particularly well-defined so perhaps something kept her alive. I could see her going on to try to carry pop's legacy, but that's about it. As far as MML goes, he just bugged me and I can't imagine him around without a huge personality transplant, but his goofiness could also play off well against USAgent. I'm trying to imagine him in charge of (or being trained by) USAgent.

Heather - I'm not anywhere near the Heather fan that many other Flight followers are, but if Mac is gone for good, I'd rather see Heather retired than killed. Seems she earned it.

Shaman - Dead and probably most useful that way.

Mac - I think he's gone, but you know...it's looked like that a number of times before, hasn't it??

Sasquatch - Apparently alive!

Puck - I think he's gone as well, which is kind of too bad. Given the choice I'd like at least one of the Pucks to stay.

[SephirothsKiller]

Wait, do we have confirmation on Shaman's death?

P.S.
Effexor that was sooo my dream first. Stop stealing my dreams!! :P

[Ottawa Renegade]

Wait, do we have confirmation on Shaman's death?

P.S.
Effexor that was sooo my dream first. Stop stealing my dreams!! :P

No, we're just guessing. None of them has been confirmed, that I know of.

[Adam]

As far as I'm concerned none of those cast-recaps at the end of volume 3 happened. I wouldn't mind at all if future writers ignore the Yukon Jack / Snowbird and Nemesis / Centennial parts. It just seemed like part of the books humour to me, not actual plot.

The temporal copies / real team in space stuff is just too confusing for a future writer to have to deal with so I'm just assuming that the copies vanished in a poof of logic and the real time came home.

As for the New Avengers stuff, here's what I'm guessing:

Mac: Dead
Heather: Dead, that or injured and quitting the hero biz
Puck: Dead, but I expect that reversed at some point
Sasquatch: Alive, but we know that
Zuzha: Dead
MML: Dead
Shaman: Dead but not gone. I half expect his spirit to talk to Talisman in the same way that Michael talked to his grandfather's. What a nice twisted plot twist if Elizabeth has his skull in a box in her closet

[Le Messor]

I'm just assuming that the copies vanished in a poof of logic

Especially Northstar?


(sorry. That was 'puff' in HHGTG.)

- Le Messor
"Your Freudian slip is showing."

[Ottawa Renegade]

As far as I'm concerned none of those cast-recaps at the end of volume 3 happened. I wouldn't mind at all if future writers ignore the Yukon Jack / Snowbird and Nemesis / Centennial parts. It just seemed like part of the books humour to me, not actual plot.

I'm going to adopt this approach as well. Like the talk about "floating heads".

The temporal copies / real team in space stuff is just too confusing for a future writer to have to deal with so I'm just assuming that the copies vanished in a poof of logic and the real time came home.

The sense I get is that it won't even be addressed, but if it were, I would leave it to one word bubble and then never speak of it again. "Those guys? We were talking about how they go forward from here, and they just faded away". Bang, that's it, done. No more of that nonsense.

[Adam]

I'm going to adopt this approach as well. Like the talk about "floating heads".

To me it just seemed cheap to take that conclusion as gospel. It doesn't seem fair to future writers to have to take what were some throwaway panels at the end of a series that nobody read and have it tie down the characters.

The sense I get is that it won't even be addressed, but if it were, I would leave it to one word bubble and then never speak of it again. "Those guys? We were talking about how they go forward from here, and they just faded away". Bang, that's it, done. No more of that nonsense.

I'd be happy with that. I think most of the big headache continuity stuff could be wiped clean like that.

Puck: "Razer? Yeah it turned out that was all lies. Mephisto or something. I'm a dwarf for real so let's never talk about this again."

[Canucklehead]

Even with the temps forgotten, snowbird ruling with Yukon Jack and most if not all of the Alpha in Av16 dead, there's no explanation for the most important member of AF, Chuck Moss!

(Hopefully not in the Guardian suit)

PS
Anyone have a good cure for a hangover?

[Ottawa Renegade]

Even with the temps forgotten, snowbird ruling with Yukon Jack and most if not all of the Alpha in Av16 dead, there's no explanation for the most important member of AF, Chuck Moss!

(Hopefully not in the Guardian suit)

PS
Anyone have a good cure for a hangover?

A toasted fried egg, tomato and peanut butter sandwhich while reading alpha Flight back issues in bed ought to do the trick. Wash that down with a big gulp of melted butter and you'll be back on your feet in no time.

Unless you're reading V3. That'll just make things worse.

[Effexxor]

Wait, do we have confirmation on Shaman's death?

P.S.
Effexor that was sooo my dream first. Stop stealing my dreams!! :P

But it's such a good dream! Sad and demented as it sounds, I've love to see Louis Jr loose his innocence and be faced with the badness that really does exist outside of the perfect world he created for himself.

Oh, the angst would be AWESOME!

[Canucklehead]

Unless you're reading V3. That'll just make things worse.

What do you think gave me the hangover in the fist place

[Le Messor]

Sad and demented as it sounds, I've love to see Louis Jr loose his innocence and be faced with the badness that really does exist outside of the perfect world he created for himself.

Look again; he has no such world. He's just the world's leading expert on denial. He could teach Howard Carter a thing or two.

- Le Messor
"Avoid hangovers. Stay drunk."