MMLJ Powers/Punch Bag etc etc...

[DelBubs]

My Dads Bigger Than Your Dad

[Powersurge]

Erm... he's a super-soldier, with super strength from a super syrum.... ?

Nope handbooks once again state he is peak human, the serum only made him peak human at tops

We actually had a very long drawn out debate on this matter a while back over at the Classic Marvel RPG site.

Apparently Cap was shown working out with some other hero and bench pressing an absolutely insane weight. Pretty well all sources however rank his strength at maximum human. The thing is, they list max. human as an 800 lb. military press. NO ONE ON RECORD has ever military pressed 800 lbs. The record stands somewhere around 600 lbs!

I would say that consistent in-comic demonstrations trump handbooks. Take Saquatch for instance, who has consistently displayed Class 100 strength levels in various comics, and yet who is consistently listed as an 80-tonner in pretty well all handbooks.

I would say that Cap is capable of exceptional feats of strength... slightly beyond that attainable for a human being of any build/weight, but not approaching any kind of weight that could be measured in tons.

The truly remarkable thing about Cap isn't his strength, but his combination of physical attributes in combination with his height, weight and build. He is (at least) as strong as a 320 lb. powerlifter, as agile as a 5' tall 135 lb gymnast, can sprint or long jump as fast and far as a 190 lb. (black) sprinter, has the stamina of a 110 lb marathon runner, the reflexes of a light weight boxer, is well above and beyond a world class 180 lb decathelete in all areas, etc.

THAT is what truly makes Cap *super* human.

[-K-M-]

Show me where I said that and I'll give you a billion dollars.

Your right, this is what you said. "Do we know that she could move a male with just one punch?". I thought you said "could a female move a male with just one punch".

ARGH! We don't at all!!!!

Yet you keep claiming MMJ is stronger. Also here lets look at it this way, if she didn't have a form of super strength why would she even try to punch MMJ?

Once again, please re-read what I wrote carefully.
Never once have I mentioned me myself taking a punch personally.
And once again, we're at stalemate about Heather being stronger.

"I could take several rounds of punches from a mugger before passing out or whatever, it doesn't give me super powers." Fine, it's a stalemate

So why did you say I was wrong to not be impressed;

I was talking compeltly about something else, such as taking a punch and not budging from a super powered individua;.

....?

See below.

Which backs up my point....

What? no you claimed if a multiple ton character punched a norm they wouldn't even budge. Yet countless examples contradict that. Then there is the whole fact MMJ even killed the Plodex Vindicator

I meant other areas such as abilities, and fighting skills.

Neither of which would add anything to the strength of a punch and whether or not it would move MMLJ....

So we're still at stalemate?

Fine with me, just pointing out MMJ took a punch from Plodex Vindicator

So MMLJ is a peak human as well, so he is on strength levels of Cap, both of which are shown in one set of handbooks to be stronger than Heather.
Which again, gives credit to MMLJ being able to take a punch from her...

That's my point they are peak human, yet both can claim superhuman feats. Look at his feats

Apparently Cap was shown working out with some other hero and bench pressing an absolutely insane weight. Pretty well all sources however rank his strength at maximum human. The thing is, they list max. human as an 800 lb. military press. NO ONE ON RECORD has ever military pressed 800 lbs. The record stands somewhere around 600 lbs!

I would say that consistent in-comic demonstrations trump handbooks. Take Saquatch for instance, who has consistently displayed Class 100 strength levels in various comics, and yet who is consistently listed as an 80-tonner in pretty well all handbooks.

I know he was doing it with Demolition Man, but Cap has also survived falling 100 stories with no damage and landing on his feet *jumped out of a helicopter*.

I agree, as handbooks greatly contradict what was shown in comics as I mentioned earlier.

Here's a good list of his feats: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t390466.html

[Le Messor]

Jumping out of a helicopter isn't that impressive.
If it's on the ground.
Or if you end up a smear.

My take has always been that MML has powers, kinda, but they're stored in Thunder, kinda. So, while he technically has powers when Thunder is around, he doesn't when Thunder's gone. And Thunder always has powers.

So, Thunder can focus powers through him, or something.

- Le Messor
"Atheism is the result of ignorance and pride; of strong sense and feeble reasons; of good eating and ill-living. It is the plague of society, the corrupter of manners, and the underminer of property."
- Jeremy Collier

[Phil]

Yet you keep claiming MMJ is stronger.

My claim is that the recent handbooks say that he is stronger, and that he has no powers.
That's all I have to go on. That's the only reason I've added anything to this thread.

Also here lets look at it this way, if she didn't have a form of super strength why would she even try to punch MMJ?

Because 'she' was an evil Plodex and he was trying to stop 'her' taking over the world?

Then there is the whole fact MMJ even killed the PlodexVindicator

Which surely indicates he was stronger?

Fine with me, just pointing out MMJ took a punch from Plodex Vindicator

Which I agree with.
It makes him strong, peak human, but I still wouldn't go as far as to say super strong.

That's my point they are peak human, yet both can claim superhuman feats.

Okay, I just find it hard to believe that a Super Soldier is weaker than a female who up untill her husband died was a simple young housewife, and has suddenly become a super strengthed individual in a short while, in the grand scheme of Marvel time

I agree, as handbooks greatly contradict what was shown in comics as I mentioned earlier.

Then this whole topic is Marvel's fault

[Powersurge]

I know he was doing it with Demolition Man, but Cap has also survived falling 100 stories with no damage and landing on his feet *jumped out of a helicopter*.

My browser wouldn't open the link at the top of the thread, which, apparently, contained the juicy stuff.

When you mention the 100 story fall and jump out of a heli, are you refering to ultmiate Cap in the ultiamte Avengers movie?

That Cap also displayed strength that was easily superhuman.

[Effexxor]

I don't know all that much about the Plodex, save from early issues of vol.1, but I do remember that super-strength was one of their attributes. If they were attempting to mimic a person with super-strength this seems reasonable that said person had some degree of super-strength.

I think that good points were made regarding technology and magic, but I guess that since such "clones" demonstrated such powers that they were, as suggested, approximations.

While it is true that there are powerlifters that couldn't utilize anything approaching their full punch-power potential, you probably still wouldn't want to be hit by one of those guys... muchless by someone that can press over a 2000 lbs.

I would tend to think that even a weak punch from someone with low-grade superhuman strength would at least be able to drive a big strong man back. On the otherhand, real world physics don't necessarily hold up all that well in comicbooks. And whether or not a person could take the punch, while smiling, is very relative.

Some peple have chins of iron and can walk through even strong punchers. And of course, sometimes light weight can help deprive a punch of its power. Take swating an airborn fly for instances or kicking a cardboard box that isn't somehow rooted. Of course, it sound as if Jr. just took the punch without budging, so...

And, incidently, in what issue do we see MML Sr. hauling off and smacking Jr. in? To the best of my knoweldge, which is hardly vast, all we ever get is an implication, based on Jr.'s subjective memory at that.

Not that it is all that unrealistic considering what Stark said about pretty well all subjects of WWII super-solider experiments in his CW: Files, but it just seems to me, based on my scant knowledge admittedly, that people are out to paint MML Sr. as abusive based on very little evidence.

Y'all, I think Powersurge made an excellent point. And since no one seemed to notice it, I figured I'd quote it. Because he has a total point, even if Plodex Heather wasn't at her actual strongest, she was still pretty darn strong.

Though as for Major Mapleleaf Sr not being abusive... he was in one heck of a mental state in #106. He tried to kill an innocent baby. I don't think it's too far a leap to think that maybe he smacked his son around a bit, especially if his son wasn't as 'good' as Michael. Though where is MMjr's mother?

[syvalois]

Though where is MMjr's mother?

Probably dead from her husband beating. Actually, I would like to see MMF senior as a villain, suit him better with such an awful name.

And as for judo, one you learn, you never forget, your body knows the movement before my mind, it's just I'm not in shape anymore. Anyway, I never really knew what I was doing, instinct where there and I was winning(sometimes), that's all I asked for. For the rest I agree with Del, your dad better than mine, oups I think it's my dad better than yours.

[Mokole]

I have no experience with amnesia (OK, a little) but I think you would still have skills. After all, can't amnesiacs talk and walk and so on? It's only one part of the brain and there's a lot going on there, amnesia really does only afftect memory right?

[Guardian]

My Dads Bigger Than Your Dad

My country has more tanks than your country.

[Ben]

I forgot what we were talking about....

[DelBubs]

Well it's like this Ben, someone said that maybe MMLjr is well ard cos he took a smack in the chops from a Plodex Vindicator. Some one else said "Yea, he's ard, but not well'ard, cos him being 'ard comes from his horse". Then someone said well maybe he's 'arder than the average hardman, but not super human 'ard. It's a debate on how 'ard is MMLjr? Consensus seems to be coming around to the point that maybe he's worm fodder anyways so it's a bit moot.

[HappyCanuck]

*opens bag of peanuts*

Man I love it when people get into stupid arguments..... especially when one of them isn't me....

[DelBubs]

My Dads Bigger Than Your Dad

My country has more tanks than your country.

My country knows how to use them properly

[HappyCanuck]

My Dads Bigger Than Your Dad

My country has more tanks than your country.

My country knows how to use them properly

... Aaaaand my country will be there with the mop to clean up your messes....