Who Wears The Suit ?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Stargate SG-1 is still called Stargate SG-1 with the same ongoing concept...Just like the Avengers, X-Men and Fantastic Four...Some of the faces may come and go, but it still has it's name and heart. Omega Flight is not the same on any level (as far as we've been informed) as Alpha Flight. We can't say..."it's still Alpha Flight...WOW!!!!!"...because it's not.

Dana

Okay...I have to correct myself here. After re-examining the whole Alpha/Omega concept...You're right, Ben...This is Alpha Flight..Or at least, another pretender(with a new name and concept)...Mike O and Joke Q. even said so. Omega Flight is Alpha Flight, Volume 4. While some may be willing to take what Marvel is handing out...I'm peeved that this just the same mistakes all over again.

We are having almost exactly the same discussions as we did when Vol 3. was coming out (as many here, have noticed and pointed out)...I can't help but think that it will very probably end the same too.

Hmmm....I was the bad guy in the Vol 3. discussions too (because I was pissed about the series being written as a joke...I'm sure some of you remember...Wow.. And AF Vol 3. eventually turned out to be a disaster)...I hate Deja Vu.

Dana

[DelBubs]

One of the things I picked up on in the Scott Kolins interview was when he said

"For Guardian I like the angle of his eyes to mirror the angles of the maple leaf Flag pattern then offset that with the flat cut of the nose area and the rounded flowing contours of his anatomy. I don’t like Guardian to have a Dr. Doom triangular nose - makes him look less sci-fi to me."

The fact that the name Guardian is still going to be used is good. Either it's in homage to the fallen Mac by whoevers in the suit, or as I like to think, it's the man himself.

[Northcott]

We are having almost exactly the same discussions as we did when Vol 3. was coming out (as many here, have noticed and pointed out)...I can't help but think that it will very probably end the same too.

To be fair, I remember a number of people stating that they were cautiously optimistic, hoping that humour would be played down and that we'd see the originals return. In a way, we did. Lobdell may have taken on the mantle of the most villainized Alpha writer ever, but in the end he did exactly what many people were screaming for: he brought back the original Alpha Flight in their full strength.

There is, however, no doubt that the series was a flop. It didn't draw new fans, and the old fans hated it more often than not.

But on that note of fairness: As much as the old series may have been a stinker, and even though we're seeing a similar pattern of conversation develop here, there's one big thing to bear in mind -- this is a different creative team. A very different creative team.

While the comparison to past conversations is entirely accurate and fair, it's not fair to tar this team with the same brush. They have different sensibilities, different approaches to story, and a different level of involvement with the book.

Perhaps this series will turn out to be a stinker, too. But given Oeming's penchant for writing character-driven stories that stay true to a character's concepts, his rep for taking his work seriously while injecting some fun at the same time, and the shared love of the characters between both writer and artist, I think this will be a series of very different flavour.

It may be starting out on an odd note, but I'm willing to give it a chance simply based on the rep of the creative team.

[cmdrkoenig67]

We are having almost exactly the same discussions as we did when Vol 3. was coming out (as many here, have noticed and pointed out)...I can't help but think that it will very probably end the same too.

To be fair, I remember a number of people stating that they were cautiously optimistic, hoping that humour would be played down and that we'd see the originals return. In a way, we did. Lobdell may have taken on the mantle of the most villainized Alpha writer ever, but in the end he did exactly what many people were screaming for: he brought back the original Alpha Flight in their full strength.

Yes...He brought them back and then got rid of them almost immediately (in the very same issue, #6 wasn't it?).

There is, however, no doubt that the series was a flop. It didn't draw new fans, and the old fans hated it more often than not.

I think it was because of the lack of original content (original team members, that many of us were dying to see)...the constant jokes (not very good ones, at that) and well....the really bad plots.

Dana

[Snowsquatch]

"For Guardian I like the angle of his eyes to mirror the angles of the maple leaf Flag pattern then offset that with the flat cut of the nose area and the rounded flowing contours of his anatomy. I don’t like Guardian to have a Dr. Doom triangular nose - makes him look less sci-fi to me."

I agree 100%. Whenever I can see a "nose-shape" in Guardian's face it makes me wince.

[kozzi24]

Lobdell brought back the original Alpha in issue 12...thus further convoluting the team for all future use. And I personally blame the editor who okay'd that.

I do remember that the regular posters here polarized over volume 3 when it was active, and have noticed that since the demise of Vol 3, many people vehemently supporting it have since basically said how much it sucked.

The whole volume 3 is a good parable for blind devotion to something because of a tenuous connection, and an equally good parable for giving something new a shot.

I am taking the approach that Omega Flight is NOT AF Volume 4, but a linked title, thru Talisman, a Guardian, and the Canadian setting. But with John Walker, Arachne and BRB, my logical mind is classifying this as being more closely linked to Avengers.

[Le Messor]

You know, it occurs to me that Oeming said there can be only one Canadian in that picture (and when the writer says that, he isn't counting maple leafs). He didn't say the rest were Americans.
Maybe there's a new Guardian, who isn't American or Canadian?

Maybe that -is- Snowbird, not Talisman, and he doesn't think of her as Canadian?

We are having almost exactly the same discussions as we did when Vol 3. was coming out (as many here, have noticed and pointed out)...

Actually, I thought I was the only one...

I didn't mind pointing it out several times, because we don't seem to notice conversational re-runs around here.

(And, nobody seemed to pick up on it when I said it, but when you say it am I jealous or rambling or something...)

In a way, we did. Lobdell may have taken on the mantle of the most villainized Alpha writer ever, but in the end he did exactly what many people were screaming for: he brought back the original Alpha Flight in their full strength.

Wow! What series were you reading?

- Le Messor
"Once is accident. Twice is coincidence.
Three times is enemy action."

[DelBubs]

I think somewhere in one of these threads I asked if Talisman would consider herself Canadian or Native American. So both her and Mac could be there, because even if she see's herself as Canadian, would Mike Oeming ?

[Canucklehead]

I think somewhere in one of these threads I asked if Talisman would consider herself Canadian or Native American. So both her and Mac could be there, because even if she see's herself as Canadian, would Mike Oeming ?

I would assume so since I believe in the US Native Americans are considered American. Hell they're the first Americans. The same goes for Canada. I don't think Oeming would want to start anything controversial like that anyway.

Has Talisman ever stated in a book that she doesn't see herself as a Canadian?

[Ben]

We are having almost exactly the same discussions as we did when Vol 3. was coming out (as many here, have noticed and pointed out)...

Actually, I thought I was the only one...

I didn't mind pointing it out several times, because we don't seem to notice conversational re-runs around here.

(And, nobody seemed to pick up on it when I said it, but when you say it am I jealous or rambling or something...)

Actually I think it's more that people chose not to respond, as many are looking at the positive side of this, and not concentrating on the possible negatives.

Millar informed me months ago that this series was in the works, and that it would feature mostly US characters at first but with in a few issues things would be moving in a more "classic" direction. (I can talk about this now that Oeming has said as much) The reason I bring this up is because I wanted to show it's not just Oeming talking out his @$$ to appease classic fans.

What it comes down to is that Marvel is no where close to even considering launching a classic AF series. It's been proposed by several people in the industry several times, and each time shot down. When Millar and Bendis came to Marvel with this idea, it was Oeming they suggested do the book, but gave him free reign to do it how he wanted, but was intended to be basically NON AF members starting off as a spin off from CW, and would morph as other characters became involved.

So for those who say "we've heard this before" yah we have. Seagle said it, and he meant it, it just took too long. His plan was a 2 year plan to return to a classic format, but it was axed before that came to fruition. He took way too long with it, and readers were under the impression that the initial 2 year "Department H. Conspiracy" story was what the whole book was to be about, unfortunately it all took too long for fans to stay interested. I quite liked the book personally, but I know there are others who did not like it.

With Lobdell, he didn't actually say that we would be seeing any influx of classic characters, just that they would be seen in the book. If I remember correctly he even stated that this was not a book about classic characters, that it was All New All Different for a reason. Innitially Snowbird was to be a member, but she was cut out of the plan. This book to me wasn't AF, I enjoyed some aspects of it, and hated how it ended. But don't mistaken his mention of classic characters appearing meaning that they would be part of the book in any significant way.

This is a fresh start, a fresh title. 99% of what people are saying over the net is positive, lets all give the book a chance before condemning it. I'm optimistic, excited, and have a lot of faith in Millar, Oeming and the plan for this title.

Ben

[Guardian]

One of the things I picked up on in the Scott Kolins interview was when he said

"For Guardian I like the angle of his eyes to mirror the angles of the maple leaf Flag pattern then offset that with the flat cut of the nose area and the rounded flowing contours of his anatomy. I don’t like Guardian to have a Dr. Doom triangular nose - makes him look less sci-fi to me."

The fact that the name Guardian is still going to be used is good. Either it's in homage to the fallen Mac by whoevers in the suit, or as I like to think, it's the man himself.

I picked up on that as well. I too like to think that that is Mac in the suit. But at least the Guardian name will be used if it's not him.

[Guardian]

We are having almost exactly the same discussions as we did when Vol 3. was coming out (as many here, have noticed and pointed out)...

Actually, I thought I was the only one...

I didn't mind pointing it out several times, because we don't seem to notice conversational re-runs around here.

(And, nobody seemed to pick up on it when I said it, but when you say it am I jealous or rambling or something...)

Millar informed me months ago that this series was in the works, and that it would feature mostly US characters at first but with in a few issues things would be moving in a more "classic" direction. (I can talk about this now that Oeming has said as much) The reason I bring this up is because I wanted to show it's not just Oeming talking out his @$$ to appease classic fans.

What it comes down to is that Marvel is no where close to even considering launching a classic AF series. It's been proposed by several people in the industry several times, and each time shot down. When Millar and Bendis came to Marvel with this idea, it was Oeming they suggested do the book, but gave him free reign to do it how he wanted, but was intended to be basically NON AF members starting off as a spin off from CW, and would morph as other characters became involved.

This is a fresh start, a fresh title. 99% of what people are saying over the net is positive, lets all give the book a chance before condemning it. I'm optimistic, excited, and have a lot of faith in Millar, Oeming and the plan for this title.

Ben

These comments give me more hope for a good series.

[Northcott]

You know, it occurs to me that Oeming said there can be only one Canadian in that picture (and when the writer says that, he isn't counting maple leafs). He didn't say the rest were Americans.
Maybe there's a new Guardian, who isn't American or Canadian?

Not quite. He coyly answered that he could only "see one Canadian" in that picture. Given that only a couple figures in that picture are clearly visible, and we had to guess at that being Talisman...

Actually, I thought I was the only one...

Nah.

Wow! What series were you reading?

I stopped reading the series almost immediately. But I do remember him bringing them back at the very last, and as Kozzi mentions, in issue 12 the full cast of original Alpha was brought back to their "golden age" state.

Not that I'd advocate any writer getting too deeply mired in that convoluted continuity. It just seems an easy blank slate to start with: take the original team, have it stated by Shaman that some kind of off-camera "melding" took place, and just run with telling fun, strong stories with a group of interesting, iconic characters who are restored to a state of grace.

[Powersurge]

Hey. Maybe the Snowbird/Talisman looking chick is neither. Maybe she's a native "Alaskan"?!

And if it is Snowbird, well, the question has been asked, would Talisman consider herself Canadian, so would a demi-goddess, whose connection with the land predates the existence of Canada and the designation of "North America", consider herself Canadian?!

Maybe not.

[Northcott]

I really think you guys are over-analyzing this. The interview was done with a sense of humour. My money's on Oeming having been playing with words a little.