Canada's RESOURCES?

[Effexxor]

Glad you noticed the quotes. By the 'real' world, I meant the familiar, the world we live in when we're home. Not to say that anything besides our world is bad, but it just simply isn't a familiar part of our worlds and lives. And humans just plain like repetition. We're a race that likes structure in general. Not to say that we don't like changes, because we do. But we all have that fundamental little thing that if it changes, we go insane. For instance? I'm a terrible wuss on sleeping. I'm not the type to stay up all night and sleep all day. If I go to sleep at 5 in the morning, I'll wake up at 8, without fail. And when I feel homesick, eating something spicy and mexican always makes me feel better.

That was just ramble... but whatever. It's early in the morning.

[Northcott]

Lordy! With everything going on in my life, I completely forgot about this discussion! I'll try and keep this really brief.

Re: Government money, scholarships, health care, etc
People may not like the conditions put on such money by the federal government, but the raw and unshakeable truth of the matter is that if the government simply handed money out they would be grossly negligent. The system is already abused with the current strictures in place. Without them the abuse would be unfathomable.

Re: Multiculturalism and federalism
Seph stated what I think with far fewer words and far more elegantly. What it boils down to is that because we haven't been two solitudes for many a year now, but a multicultural society made up of countless cultural pockets both new and old, dividing governmental power based on cultural concerns is a self-defeating prospect. Perhaps even worse is the current standard by which that measure is applied unfairly and with bias.

As Seph also pointed out, the constitution is set up so that these issues have a path to smooth themselves over given the course of time. One of the big hullabaloos is that Quebec refuses to sign on to the constitution.

Re: Nationalism and Newfoundland
Newfoundlanders are, for the most part, very nationalistic. While many may self-identify as Newfoundlanders first and foremost, and while it's the newest province in Confederation, they're fiercely proud of the red and white. The national scuffles that have occured since Williams took office are regarded as a necessary evil, and at the core of each tiff has been the message "we're proud Canadians and we're not threatening to walk off, but we need to sort this out".

Funny, you only know Mitsou because of a CBC show...

Actually, I know her because of "Bye Bye Mon Cowboy". MuchMusic in the 80's. The CBC's mandate is, however, to serve as a cornerstone of Canadian culture through dissemination of information, creating a shared language of experience and knowledge -- within limits, of course. It makes perfect sense that Au Courant would be an addition to its programming.

But what is our national identity? What do you find national about Canada? Maple sirup? There is no sugar maple in the west, no sugar shack. As some westerner said once, if Québec separate, Canada should change there flag since the majority of the maple sirop are made in Québec. But again, that leaf is maybe not a sugar maple.

I can say what is my Quebec identity(maybe not clearly but it shine in me and I've got a good idea), but as a canadian it's obscur, I got one somewhere, I know that, but it's not strong and I can't say what it is. I know I feel canadian because quebec is an integrale part of Canadian history, I know I like the peaceful approche, but most of those stuff can be attributed to occidental country too. Health care is seen in France and Great britain too (they also have similar problems than we do).

Any culture is, by the nature of its complexity, a vast, ever-changing thing. You can't define Canadian culture? Define Quebecois culture. Will that definition hold when contrasted with the definition of a more urban, nationalistic point of view of someone from Montreal?

Culture is a slippery fish to try and catch. We can only ever paint it in broad strokes, because if we delve too much into specifics the attempts at definition quickly fall apart. In the broad strokes, the central values of Quebec are very much in line with several other regions of Canada. Of all provinces I'd actually say that Alberta is the most different in that regard.

What's wrong with decentralizing the central power? At would ensure Quebec to stay in Canada. That's what many separatist wants. It Ottawa was to give to the province more powers, they would stay in Canada. My dad would actually, he said so.

I maintain that decentralization of power is a dangerous red herring used to keep politicans employed. On a fiscal scale, it's a fool's game. Canada's already losing some financial bargaining power on the global scale by catering to Quebec's desire to negotiate individually -- and Quebec's financial pull is low enough that your province is likely going to see some ripples from that move in the coming decade.

There are many situations where speaking for a vast number of people with a united voice has merit. It's for that reason that democratically elected governments were conceived of. The system currently in place works very well, and because of its population Quebec has traditionally held a great deal of power at the federal level (though that's now switching to the west as BC and Alberta just hit population booms and now exceed Quebec's numbers). The province would have been better served by utilizing that power in a constructive, rather than deconstructive, manner.

Removing federal powers and turning the PM's office into nothing more than a figurehead will hamstring the nation quite effectively -- but such a move will serve several small groups of people, particularly in certain industrial sectors, quite nicely.

Maurice Richard?

Was a God on skates. I was giddy like a kid at Christmas when I went through the Richard exhibit at the Museum of Civilization during a trip to Ottawa a couple years back. Caught it just before they closed it.

...

...Damn, but I'm long-winded.

[syvalois]

Ok, sorry it took me so long. I'm not really good to express mself in french or english, so sorry. I'm still using the "us" or "we" when actually, I can't really say that, oh, well..

Re: Government money, scholarships, health care, etc
People may not like the conditions put on such money by the federal government, but the raw and unshakeable truth of the matter is that if the government simply handed money out they would be grossly negligent. The system is already abused with the current strictures in place. Without them the abuse would be unfathomable.

???? Did I miss something? I don't think anyone suggested to give money to the individual. For my part, I was saying the federal was intrusive in the provincial juridiction (exemple: the millenium scholarship or what ever you call it) and that money should have been given to the province.

Re: Multiculturalism and federalism
Seph stated what I think with far fewer words and far more elegantly. What it boils down to is that because we haven't been two solitudes for many a year now, but a multicultural society made up of countless cultural pockets both new and old, dividing governmental power based on cultural concerns is a self-defeating prospect. Perhaps even worse is the current standard by which that measure is applied unfairly and with bias.

As Seph also pointed out, the constitution is set up so that these issues have a path to smooth themselves over given the course of time. One of the big hullabaloos is that Quebec refuses to sign on to the constitution.

Ah, the constitution. History remember that day as « la nuit des longs couteaux » the night of the long knifes if you like. That do speak for itself.

I've got an hard time understanding that multicultural society, you talk of. It's like, it's ok, to have a jew, italian, greek, etc identity, but it leave no place to the Canadian identity to come up. What is it to be canadian? Why do you think Degrassi work so well, what makes it canadian?

I'm proud of what is made here(Québec), I will support it more than the other product because I know like with songs or movies, it won't get out of the province, unless it's popular here, then it can be exported. But the exported market is very small.

What I like of the home product, makes people live here, get the industry running, if it's a movie or a song or a tv serie, I can see myself, my family in it. But most of all, I like it. Don't make me watch Loft Story, I can't stand it. But if I could watch Rumeurs, listen to Mes Aieux or Pierre Lapointe, I will be very happy.

I did not had the molson canadian ad. We don't have Molson Canadian in Québec, we don't define ourselve by what we are not. We don't usually get the same ads than you do. Never notice, Bell or other company usually do separate publicity for the francophone public, and usually it's mean Québec.

I was in Halifax once, and I was watching Radio-Canada. I did not felt there was a lot of canada in Radio-Canada, it felt more like Radio-Québec. I thing acadian deserve more than one or 2 shows homemade, that is not even shown in Québec.

If I was a franco-ontarians, or acadians, I would get really frustrated looking at the french debate for the federal election. Only talks about Québec and the debate is not really one since not all the candidates are fluent enough in french to follow the conversation. Do you get that in english?

Re: Nationalism and Newfoundland
Newfoundlanders are, for the most part, very nationalistic. While many may self-identify as Newfoundlanders first and foremost, and while it's the newest province in Confederation, they're fiercely proud of the red and white. The national scuffles that have occured since Williams took office are regarded as a necessary evil, and at the core of each tiff has been the message "we're proud Canadians and we're not threatening to walk off, but we need to sort this out".

Really? I've met a newfounlander saying it was the worst thing that happen to them when they join Canada, but you are the expert there. Who is Williams? But at least Newfoundand voted to join. Québec never did. Remember the battle on the plaine d'Abraham? The conquest? When the french left us fight alone without sending people to help? Why should I identify with a country that left us (France), why should I care about a country that is a conqueror (Great Britain) and why should I care about a country that keep the conqueror symbols (The Queen is our president) and the gouvernor general is her representative. Tell me, it's only symbols, but they can talk a lot.

So, you see, I'm not from france, I'm not from Great Brittain, I'm not a american, I'm not also canadian as you are, so can I be Québécoise? A mix of all that with native blood in it, a lot of irish too, historically catholic, but not true anymore and speak french as a common language. I don't have common law but the code civil, because when the US made the independance war on Brits, well the brits where so scared we would join the US that they give us the french civil code.

Actually, I know her because of "Bye Bye Mon Cowboy". MuchMusic in the 80's.

Wonder why they show her, to continu the stereotype « french canadian » image? She was 16 years old or something at the time, and she did not had a lot to say, except she liked to provoke. We are not used to Britney Spears in the Québec cultural industry. The virgin **** as the journalist Foglia wrote about Spears is well almost unknown to us. Or you're a **** or you're a virgin, not both !:P Ok, spears is not a virgin anymore... And in both case, **** or virgin, I would not yell it to anyone. The public do not need to know.

She did suffer a lot of jokes about her and she was not taken seriously for a long time. Now it as changed, because she as mature and know more how to talk with the media.

She said later that in Québec, its not well seen to be eccentric, we all got to be nice. It was her complaint. I got to agree with her for that. It's why Wilfred LeBouthillier won Star Académie (our Canadian idol, if you like).

Yes, we like nice people in general, like the sheep that is our symbol. You know St-Jean-Baptiste is our patron and he was surrounded with sheep. So a lot of people say we are sheep. Afraid of everything, nice but will do whatever we are told.

Me, I say we are not sheep but we are peaceful. How many nation can say they made a quiet revolution? How many nation can say they want separation through democraty and not violence? Can you name a lot?

I'm using the term « nation » do you agree with me? What makes a nation? What makes the Kurdes a nation without a country? Why the Basques separated in 2 countries is a nation, but it seems oly the spanish part want to separate? Why the Breton fell good in France? Can we say the acadians are a nation? I would not mind. Why the U.S. As it's very different from the east to the west, to the north to the south fell like 1 big united country? What makes a nation? Well, the only answer I came with is it's when the people decided it was a nation.

And in Québec, it's not even a question anymore. We are a nation, whatever Justin Trudeau can say. Even Bill Clinton said it. He said we where a nation but it's not in our interest to separate. Well, at least he admit the obvious unlike the rest of Canada. If the ROC do not accept this, then Canada is doom. Because you can think you are a nation a work inside Canada (like the federalist). But some will say if you accept the notion of a nation in Québec, it's a step to independance. Well, either way, you're screw, but personally, even more if you don't accept Québec as a nation, because you will loose a lot more federalists, or fencesitter like myself.

The CBC's mandate is, however, to serve as a cornerstone of Canadian culture through dissemination of information, creating a shared language of experience and knowledge -- within limits, of course. It makes perfect sense that Au Courant would be an addition to its programming.

But from what I gather, everyone in english canada think it's boring and don't watch it. What is it worth if no one cares? You most be the only one watching Au courant. So who else in this forum has watch that show? I don't. But, I must admit to have watch « Les Ordres » of Michel Brault on the CBC and it must be one of the most powerful quebec movie of all time. What was done during the war mesure in Montréal (1970) was an atrocity that many remember very well today and why many had forgotten what Trudeau did good for the province before that.

Any culture is, by the nature of its complexity, a vast, ever-changing thing. You can't define Canadian culture? Define Quebecois culture. Will that definition hold when contrasted with the definition of a more urban, nationalistic point of view of someone from Montreal?

LOL, in nationalistic, you mean federalist? Because in Québec (in the news) when they say nationalist, it's mean souverainist.

Well, I'm sure it maybe different, but yes, I do think it's possible to give a general view of Quebec culture. The main influence are from the francophonie (mostly France) and the anglosaxon (rest of Canada, but more importantly US and Britain). If you look at le coeur a ses raisons, it's a satire of american soap and since the american soaps are translated in France, well, it's also a satire of the french translation.

We have quebec traditional music based on the celtic and britanny and or?? normandy music. The main characteristic was the use of violon and spoon. I learn recently, they did not used drum, because it would sound to much like the native. Oh, well, I never said everything was perfect.

New group emerged lately mixing world beat with traditional quebec music. At the moment the efeverscence in quebec music makes the french jalous.

Ah, funny thing, in the 50's there was no real quebec music (or not considered good enough to be recorded). What people did, was take a english song and translated it or even less job, just put whatever lyric they felt like. Or take a french song and did it again. But from that time, emerge the knowledge to create original music.

In many song, you get an upbeat song, but when you look at the lyric, it's a very sad song.

We are tv program addict. We really like our tv show and now the movies and also our singers. They are almost part of the family even if we really never met them. We are really proud of them, when they are popular outside our province Anthony Kavanagh, Céline Dion, Isabelle Boulay, etc. (ok, usually, I'm not a Garou fan, but I was beginning to be when I was travelling, I needed my quebec music fix)

What is the worst, not been home, it's the expressions that are not understood, the cultural reference absolutly not there. Like we where going to Alberta and only the other Québécker undertood me, when I was singing song from Astérix and Cléopatra animated movies. I mean, Astérix movies are shown every year at christmas, you get « sound of music » we get Astérix.

From experience, I can say our cooking look more like scots except haggis and in less greasy. But the product are easier to recognise in Britain than in France , except for yogurt, movies and musics.

Also a renew taste for good food, good beer that do not taste like piss and good cheese. Cider too. Stuff did here and that taste good.

For books and play, we have Michel Tremblay, Gratien Gélinas and Robert Lepage. All great names that has and/or is marking the theatre of today. Even if we never seen/read anything of them, they are well known, like Apocalypse Now is a classic that not everyone have seen, but it's known like from everyone.

I could continu, but I think from what I said above, you can see what I mean. I can continue in my next reply. Now,I would like you to try. Like what make you go canadian crazy, what you fell is canadian.

Like I found that guy saying this, about canadian identity. Do you agree? I found it interesting, but again, I also found, when he said :

We are told that Canadian movies provide a window on Canadian identity and the Canadian experience. But do they? Do Atom Egoyan's or Lea Pool's films really reflect the Canadian identity, per se? And, for that matter, isn't that a lot of pressure to put on a filmmaker anyway?

Well,I don't agree. Yes, canadian movies can be a window to canadian identity, but mostly a film maker should do a film just because he/she want to do it, not for representing canadian identity. A movie like Maurice Richard is sure you're going to attract a lot of people. Richard is part of our collective memory. I had a book about him when I was a kid and he was my dad's hero. Of course it's a window to the french canadian identity (we where not québécois yet). But if we only do that kind of movie, it's going to our doom. We need new collective memory. That's when personnal movies are important. Like when Denis Arcand did « Le déclin de l'empire américain » he was not thinking about identity or anything. Just to do a good movie. It was so good that now that movie is part of our identity.

Lol, I just saw the english poster for the movie, you never notice it's different in french?



Québec
Canada

Culture is a slippery fish to try and catch. We can only ever paint it in broad strokes, because if we delve too much into specifics the attempts at definition quickly fall apart. In the broad strokes, the central values of Quebec are very much in line with several other regions of Canada. Of all provinces I'd actually say that Alberta is the most different in that regard.

I do think culture is not rigid and got a precise border. Yes, I agree with you, but I do think you can do better in defining your Canada. I feel like we do the political talk and each is arguing without listening to the other. I don't want to know why Québec is so much like the rest of Canada, I know where we are alike in many cases as we think alike some of our southern neibhors. Like if you like, we think alike in our occidental way of life. Don't you think, I already did not think about that? I'm almost obsession with the identity/nation question.

But if you look historically, he never got along. Even if we do have values that are similar what do you do of that? We where french, when you where english, we where canadians when you where still english, we where french canadian when you decided to by also canadians and now we are québécois. Historically, we were told we were against Riel been hang for treason.

We are also told, we where againt the conscription for the 1st and 2nd world war (any war actually) since it was always seen as a english war and that we where cannon fodder.

Just a little things like that. So, maybe today we are more like the rest of Canada in value, but I'm still septical. Do you have surveys that say in Canada people think .... except in Québec where.... Well, I get that all the time when I watch the news.

There are many situations where speaking for a vast number of people with a united voice has merit. It's for that reason that democratically elected governments were conceived of. The system currently in place works very well, and because of its population Quebec has traditionally held a great deal of power at the federal level (though that's now switching to the west as BC and Alberta just hit population booms and now exceed Quebec's numbers). The province would have been better served by utilizing that power in a constructive, rather than deconstructive, manner.

Removing federal powers and turning the PM's office into nothing more than a figurehead will hamstring the nation quite effectively -- but such a move will serve several small groups of people, particularly in certain industrial sectors, quite nicely.

Like it's not already? Sponsorship scandal? Allô!!! Can we only be a group of people sharing a common financial an political view that do things their onw way? Culturally, each province is different, their is no real canadian culture but more different provincial culture and we all assemble behind the name of Canada. Yes, for me that could work, but not the other way around. Because the other way, it keep us in a image that do not fit.

As bad as it may sound, (and I'm know I'm tired of it myself) it's all go back to the conquest and the fact that we are still not really part of canada since we never sign the constitution. And that damn inferiority complex still there even tho it's less important. When I hear my friend say she's going to name her daughter by an english name so maybe it will give her more change in life, I get furious.

When I get the negro king theory by souverainist to explain why we are mainly fighting amount ourselves (Lévesque-Trudeau, Parizeau-Chrétien, etc), I find the reason not totally false, but at the same time, I find it a easy way out, as it's easier to blame the « others » then ourselves.

But then you get Canadian Idol, where it's supposed to brink together all canadians, but you can't even sing a song in french in that contest, right, wonder why I don't feel canadian?

Then there was the 1995 referendum, where people from all Canada came to Montréal to tell us they loved us. The trip was paid by rich businnessmen and maybe the gouvernment. It would have been so nive if everyone of those persons had paid their flight ticket. That way they would have really shown us they loved us. Instead, the message was; « we love you but we are above your law ». Yes, in doing that gathering, they broke the Québec referendum law in maximum spending. They never got anything because they where not québec citizen.

Or again, my father receiving his pay check in english. Would you like to receive in your Ontario home an paycheck only in french? I don't think so. Most of all, my father was not bilingual. He also had to do an expense account in english. He was working 60 hours a week paid per week and not by the hours he did. He was 67 years old. No one asked him to do that many hours, but can I tell you, he felt insulted by his paycheck and the expense account. In that respect, when I watch Maurice Richard, the movie, I really saw my father, working like a dog and not capable of asking anything to the company.

Well, he may never had asked, but I did when he died last september, I asked his big boss in Hamilton if the employees could have their paycheck bilingual, so everyone would understand something. And I send him a link to « L'office québécoise de la langue française » because they could help him in the francisation of his company. Anyway, by the law, when you got more than 50 employees in Québec you got to do a francisation. Why was it not done yet? Ignorance? I choose that, but is it possible to not understand a thing as basic as this one? I really wonder...

And I leave you with this :Courrier international it's a french magazine talking about us quebecers and sorry it's all in french, but in there they talk about a article written in the economist, if you are curious enough to find it.

And, sorry if I offended anyone. It's not my goal, it's not because I don't really see what it's mean to be canadian that I don't like Canadian. Actually, I would like to see everyone personal view, be proud of who you are, don't wait for the american to love you. I think with Degrassi, that's what you're showing. You should continu to do more of those. Go see your cinema, read books, be proud.