Alpha/Omega

[cmdrkoenig67]

Okay Dana, I believe you've made your point. Every body is perfectly aware of where you stand on this issue. Can I suggest that maybe you should step away from this issue now, as it is obviously causing you some distress, otherwise you wouldn't have taken Eds off the cuff remarks so much to heart.

This thread is to discuss the new OMEGA FLIGHT comic by Oeming and Kolins. Your views on it are widely known. I can't see what else you can offer this thead, as you have obviously made up your mind about it already.

I don't see Ed's remarks as "off the cuff", they were downright nasty. He implied more than once in his post that I seem to have some issue with separating reality and fiction. The man doesn't know me and has no right to make such assumptions about me.

I guess If you feel I have nothing left to say, then I'll leave...You must know best.

Dana

P.S. The title of the thread is Alpha/Omega, Del...You titled it yourself.

[Northcott]

Ed...I have every right to be angry about the current state of Alpha Flight (and duh...We all know they're fictional)...Don't presume to tell me how I should feel.

If you can find in my post where I expressly told you how to feel, by all means quote it and I'll apologize directly. I lead off with "In the name of God, why?" for a reason. You're confusing question and statement.

I happen to like the characters of the original Alpha Flight..So sue me, if I get peeved that they've been "killed off, shoved into limbo, ignored, written to look like jokes, etc...

I think that sentiment is pretty much unanimous in this forum.

I have no problem interpreting the differences between reality and fiction, contrary to what your implying or what you may believe.

You're crediting me with too great a degree of subtlety. I implied nothing. If I believed you had a tenuous grasp on reality, I'd come out and say it directly. I do believe, however, that you're getting far too worked up over this... which was the point of my prior post. There are far greater things to be concerned about. If the state of Alpha Flight gets you this worked up, I can't even conceive of how taxes, family, mortgage payments, etc, must stress you out.

No, that's not a dig. Quit thinking I'm being subtle.

you can keep the subtle insults about my mental state to yourself.

Again, you credit me with too much subtlety. I do think you're being extremely thin-skinned, reactionary, and barbed in responses. I am large, and I am white. That doesn't make it cool to project all over me.

Yes...I know Alpha Flight may come back (at some point...maybe when Joke Quesada is no longer EIC), but that's no gaurantee their return will be any better than Vols 2 or 3.

An unfortunate truth.

BTW...All is not good in the real world (not that I usually let it get me down)...Where have you been?

In my basement, drawing comics. I finally emerged to play in a softball tournament this weekend, and now I'm lobster-ish in hue.

Dana :P

I had enough trouble getting the pronounciation of "Dana" right. Adding in the "thhppppp!" at the end of the name each time is going to be difficult.

Sorry. Couldn't resist that last.

[Tawmis]

Okay Dana, I believe you've made your point. Every body is perfectly aware of where you stand on this issue. Can I suggest that maybe you should step away from this issue now, as it is obviously causing you some distress, otherwise you wouldn't have taken Eds off the cuff remarks so much to heart.
This thread is to discuss the new OMEGA FLIGHT comic by Oeming and Kolins. Your views on it are widely known. I can't see what else you can offer this thead, as you have obviously made up your mind about it already.

I don't see Ed's remarks as "off the cuff", they were downright nasty. He implied more than once in his post that I seem to have some issue with separating reality and fiction. The man doesn't know me and has no right to make such assumptions about me.
I guess If you feel I have nothing left to say, then I'll leave...You must know best.
Dana

Whoa! Reign it in a bit! I don't think anyone's asking you to "leave" - like "Shoo, go away!" I think it's more like - you have made your statement about the disappoint in this series "calling itself a cheap knock off of Alpha Flight" - and you have CLEARLY stated it. I kid you not, when I read your posts - I can almost hear you screaming at me (even if the posts aren't directed at me), because they are pretty clear in their intent and anger.

For example, your response to Del - that just came off very angry and a tad spiteful. All Del is trying to do is what his "job" is here and moderate things and bring back a sense of peace around here. I mean, rather than take what Del said into consideration (basically everyone calming the frick down), you basically said, "Screw you, I am taking my toys and going home!"

I think all anyone is asking - that everyone (myself included, mind you) - who is wrapped about the "debate" of Alpha Flight/Omega Flight - to take a step back and just "discuss" the idea of it - not battle about whether it's Alpha Flight, a knock off of Alpha Flight, or anything else. For that, I think it would be better off making a new thread to state those feelings about what you think Marvel has done to fubar Alpha Flight.

That's just my take.

PMing this to you also, in case you don't check this thread (or forum)....

[DelBubs]

At this point I'm asking for all messages in regards to this to be taken to PM. I am ready to listen to well reasoned discussion on the pro's and cons of Omega Flight, but personal discord shouldn't be aired in public.

Thanks

[Tawmis]

+At this point I'm asking for all messages in regards to this to be taken to PM. I am ready to listen to well reasoned discussion on the pro's and cons of Omega Flight, but personal discord shouldn't be aired in public.

Thanks

Well Del I don't give a damn WHAT you want! That's right! I said it!

Er. Just kidding man...

Well like I said before - I am eager to see what comes of OMEGA FLIGHT. Unlike previous writers of ALPHA FLIGHT, Oeming at least seems like he is genuiely interested in what he has in store.

My qualm so far lies in "Beta Ray Bill" - not that he's on the team - but why does he look like... BOX?! (Or is it a BOX version fo Beta Ray Bill?! Egads!) But seriously BRB's arms were never the size of cannons... and the metal glove... what's with that!?

I do however REALLY like how everyone else is drawn (though most are shadows, you can still see the artistic styel there). It's only BRB that I really have an issue with how he's being drawn.

[RolandT]

A friend mentioned this after I showed him this site:

" Maybe with Civil War the thing is Thor is stomping guys and who can stop him? Beta Ray Bill could at least get in his way. And Iron Man, who's going to get in his way and give the anti-sra forces a chance to escape? Guardian could stand up to shellhead. If anyone else gets in the way Talisman could easily throw some distractions at them, and thus Beta Ray and Guardian get in the way and Cap's guys run away after a quick thank you. Besides, they could argue they needed to save honest heroes from guys trying to kill them, so SHIELD would just ghhhrrr and walk away mad. "

[Barnacle13]

I'm Ok with the lineup. I must admit I know next to nothing about Beta Ray Bill. I've never been a Thor fan (methinks his speech giveveth me a headache), so I've not really seen much BRB. If Arachne is Julia Carpenter, I read her and USAgent extensively when they were part of Avengers West. I think what I loved about them is that they were completely touchable, unlike the East Coast branch who you couldn't stick a turd to. Yeah USAgent was always a bit of a hothead and loose cannon, but I can deal with that. Spider-Woman had a great back story with being a single parent. That could come into play if we find out Mac or Heather bought the farm in NA#16. She could really support emotionally the survivor of that battle. Talisman I'm stoked to see more of. I always liked Shaman and Talisman. She seemed the stronger of the two both powerwise and emotionally. So, I'm good with her being on the team. Guardina is the real question here. I'd love to see it be Mac, but there are a lot of possibilities for conflict if it isn't him. I'm not sure which side of the fence I'll end up on that question. Could make for some amazing drama. Or consider an issue #12 where Guardian is killed by Vindicator (Mac) for hijacking his dream. I'd also like to see Sasquatch face off against BRB. Imagine Tanaraq taking control of Walter. What a savage contest that would be.

I'm excited about the potential. And like Dana a bit disappointed it isn't Alpha Flight. But logically Alpha Flight might not have flown on its own anyway. After the last treatment I think a lot of comic collectors are staying away from anything Alpha. This has stirred some excitement and that is a good thing. Hopefully it can lead to a more recognizable Alpha Flight in their own series, but if the best I can get is a couple of my favorite characters I'll take it over none of my favorite characters.

Good Luck Mike! I hope this is a huge success!

[RolandT]

Tests Friday, but I'm having a positive attitude and Omega Flight news helps! My classmates wonder where my newfound mental energy is coming from, I'm just deciding not to be a jerk anymore. Omega Flight simply cheered me up when I found out, and now with math and biology tests coming up, I'm full of the right kind of mind to improve my A's into A+, time to study. But Omega Flight is giving me good vibes to share. Who knew?

[Northcott]

Tawmis: I think the thing with Bill's arms is probably just artistic flair. He's always been drawn a bit bulkier/larger than Thor, if I recall correctly, and so some artists draw him Hulk-like in scope. It works in terms of creating visual diversity among the characters.

Barnacle: I agree completely with the idea that the switch from Alpha to Omega is probably a good thing in terms of giving the concept a fair shake in the eyes of comic readers who aren't Alpha Flight fans. I really hope they don't do the "Issue 12 shocker", though. It's now become such a thing for Alpha relaunches that it's like a curse: kill the series with an issue 12 trope.

I hope your notion of the way Alpha might return isn't a premonition. An old-fashioned superhero battle is one thing. Actually having Mac kill the current Guardian? Man, that would be a downer beyond words. It would sort of complete the cycle that's occurred with the original Alphans getting stomped on; turned to villains, made insane, brainwashed, made into killing machines, etc.

From the comments Oeming's made, I'm hoping we'll see a very character-driven book. I've always thought Alpha would benefit from that sort of approach given the strength of the personalities involved.

[Ben]

Dana, don't feel like you have to leave, I think it's just that those who are optimistic and looking forward to something positive in the AF realm want to concentrate on the positive. You have just as much right to express your opinion as they do, I just ask that everyone respect each other's opinions, and that every remain open minded if possible.

Ben

[MistressMerr]

The way I see it, is it's just another AF cameo, like the twins in X-Men right now. That said, I really love AI cameos, and as long as I keep looking at it like that and not as the 'Alpha Flight title that wasn't', I'm pretty excited for it. Especially since Talisman's involved, I've been wanting her to put in an appearance forever!

[Guardian]

Guardian. Apart from killing off the classic Alpha Flight off panel, what exactly has Mr Bendis done to you, to deserve your disdain

Well besides the whole Alpha Flight thing, my problems are:
-In all his work that I've read he takes forever to build up to the finale and then in the end, nothing happens. It falls flat. Examples include HoM and New Avengers.
-He can't write action worth a damn. He can't choregraph it, he just skips it all together sometimes.
- He brings in this rag-tag group of new and exciting heroes to the New Avengers lineup. Heros that have constantly been loners most of the time. (Cage, Spider-Man, attemps Daredevil, Ronin) He brings all these characters together and they do nothing. The Sentry has alot of potential but is barely in a few issues. Ronin came and went in two issues if I remember correctly. Wolverine made only a handful of appearances. And when they do disappear, there is no explanation why.
- He does some stories well, but big events he can't handle. HoM for example. I had to fight myself to read through HoM.

Now these are just my opinions, so take 'em with a grain of salt.

But if all honesty, he does do a few things well. He writes Luke Cage very well. I never cared for the character, but Bendis made me like him. And bringing back the original Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew) was brilliant. And her background story is great. I really like her character now as well.

So I suppose my statement earlier saying that I hate Bendis isn't truly fair. He does some good things and some bad.
I just wish he wouldn't cast aside characters (killing them or otherwise) like he does.

[Guardian]

After pondering Omega Flight during the weekend, my opinion on the new series has changed. I'M FREAKING STOKED!

Guardian is back. Sweet!
Elizabeth is on the team. Great!
(Sure it may not be Mac or Elizabeth, but Im being optimistic)

As long as they don't do something silly like put an American in the Guardian suit I think Im going to love this new series.

Im putting my faith in the creative team.

As much as Marvel pisses me off sometimes, I dig some of their other recent moves.

Iron Fist getting his own series again. Moon Knights ongoing. Heroes For Hire. Omega Flight. Now if only Darkhawk can get his own series back.

MikeM

Yeah hopefully that is Mac and Elizabeth on the team. And I really think that the new creative team cares and will give the old AF much needed dues and respect. I may not be stoked about this news, but I am genuinely (I know I can't spell) excited about this new series. I'll give it some time I think and hopefully I'll be happy with the results.
Just please let it be Mac in the Guardian costume. [-o<

Oh, the new Moon Knight rocks by the way.

[Guardian]

...Mike Oeming, who I got to talk to. My biggest concern was finding out if "Mailman Mike" from NA#16 was going to be on this new team. I was told he would not be on the team, that the new series would pay homage to the old AF, and that more characters (not pictured) from the old series would be included. Mr. Oeming, who was sketching at the time, even took a few moments to look at my work and assess it. He told me that I should work on tightening my pencil-work for a better foundation, and I'll do that.

.

This is all great news. Thank God that the psycho mailman isn't in the series. Adding older characters is great. Let the homaging (is this a word?) begin.

[Guardian]

I think everyone on this list is at best cautiously optimistic, and at worst unhappy that they aren't getting a true Alpha Flight. I agree with Del, Alpha Flight the concept is not the problem. If they were, then they'd have appeared in Uncanny X-Men all those years ago and disappeared. This forum wouldn't be up and operational, and folks wouldn't be elated or pissed by the news of Oeming Flight.

As someone who tries to fill in every hole in my Alpha Flight collection, including cameos as small as the Aurora cover in Ms.Marvel, I'll be buying. Consider it a cameo if you must, but it will include at least some of the characters I've grown to love over the years. I can't see folks hanging around for Beta Ray Bill, USAgent, or Arachne for an extended period of time. I could be wrong about that though. I'm a little interested in the Arachne/Spider-Woman character, but the other two not so much. However, I will give Oeming and Kollins a chance to change my perspective on these characters. Talisman I couldn't be happeir to read more about and Guardian (regardless of who is in the suit) could lead to some good stories also. I know everyone wants Mac to be Guardian, but it would open some interesting stories up if he weren't. Especially if Mac, Heather, Sas, and Puck survived and come back to reclaim their identities.

Oeming has said there are older Alphans waiting to be reintroduced. Until he gives me a reason to disbelieve I will take his word for it. Marvel has to know that Guardian, Sasquatch, and Puck are fan favorites. I can't see them burying them for long. It may take a few issues to start seeing these folks, but I believe they will eventually be back. V2 was headed in that direction before the plug was pulled. They just didn't get there quick enough. I think V3 failed because the first thing they did was jettison the originals. Well that and crappy storytelling.

Color me cautiously optimistic. I'm exited to have at least some Alphans to read about again and will give Oeming Flight a chance to stand on its own before throwing stones and shooting it down. If there's any chance of seeing Alpha Flight any time soon, I think Omega has to be a success. I'm willing to support that endeavor.

As I mentioned earlier.. if you're still reading Mike. Make sure Marvel gives you the marketing you require. Make sure subscription service is available and advertised. Don't let Marvel leave you and, in the balance, us out to dry. This was once a hot property and if treated properly it can be again.

Tom

Very well put. I agree with everything you say. Well done.