It argues about a lot of things, as well as a new name for Northstar. Really, Northstar should get an alternate name in French. What do you guys think?
Here's the article
http://comicbookbin.com/northstar001.html
New Article on Northstar
It argues about a lot of things, as well as a new name for Northstar. Really, Northstar should get an alternate name in French. What do you guys think?
Here's the article
http://comicbookbin.com/northstar001.html
Boy, that was a dumb article. Some points:
Does this guy even know what schizophrenia is? (Kids: don't use words you don't understand.)"While his sister, Aurora is a split personality, Northstar’s history is schizophrenic and really show a lack of understanding from all the authors who worked on him."
When Jean-Paul was a terrorist, he was just a kid. Kids do stupid things. His militant opinions were a way-stop while growing up."First of all, being a separatist terrorist, and then working for Canadian government secret service and National Defence flies in the face of sound judgment on the part of the government and the individual involved. He willingly accepted to stay with Alpha Flight. A separatist from Quebec would never do that."
By the time he joined AF, his opinions about things had changed. I don't think he was even a separatist anymore.
That's because he isn't "Quebec's leading super hero." This whole line of thought is silly. Are we supposed to think Puck is "Toronto's leading super hero?""If you ask the average comic book reader in Quebec about Northstar, they will probably remember him as the gay guy, as opposed to Quebec’s leading super hero."
What? Read that again: "If Northstar was [...] proud of his Quebec heritage, he would not call himself Northstar." What a complete load of crap."If Northstar was a Québécois nationalist and proud of his Quebec heritage, he would not call himself Northstar. He would be known by a French name like “Boréal” or something more appropriate. This is a major error that Marvel writers have never caught or even fixed. It shows how poorly they understand what should drive a character like Northstar. Northstar is a distinctively English Canadian term. In fact, even if people called him Northstar, he should be pissed off every time it happened."
Besides, the notion that Byrne didn't understand his own creation, but this "Hervé St.Louis" guy does, is stupid. He seems to think he knows "what should drive a character like Northstar."
Uh, Northstar has the most distinctive personality in all of AF. Far more distinctive than Mac, Walt, or Michael, that's for sure."One could argue that all these developments make him a richer character. I disagree. It makes him stand in for many trends and events in society but we still don’t know much about the character’s personality."
This guy seems to think he understands Northstar better than Byrne did. I think that's ridiculous.
All this "Hervé St.Louis" person has said is: "if I were creating Northstar, he would be a proud nationalist, with a common Quebec name, with a real French code-name, would speak "franglais" accurately, and have a more "quebecois" personality. That's great; but that's not Northstar.
The only accurate thing said in this whole column. Northstar is a Canadian super-hero from Quebec, not a Quebec super-hero."Gay mutant Northstar is also a strong contender for being Canada’s emblem."
Woah. I have a feeling you're using another debate to criticize my article here. What I wrote has nothing to do with the separatist debate in Quebec. And calling me stupid repeatedly is not the way of making an argument.
No French Canadian or French speaking Québécois super hero, if they really existed would be caught using an English name all the time without even having a French equivalent as his main name. You can argue this till the next century, but English, the last time I checked was not Northstar's native language nor original culture.
It's just common sense.
That Byrne created Northstar doesn't mean that he did not used bad clichés and some poor ideas with the character. The name Beaubier, for example may sound French, but it would be hard to find anyone with that name in a Quebec-based phone book.
About Northstar's political allegiances, when I read over my early Alpha Flight comics, I see someone who has no intention of being associated with the Canadian government. The only reason he stays at first, is because of his sister. But after a while, he had no real motive. Also remember how apprehensive he was at first of Alpha Flight and all the English Canadians in it.
My question to you is what's the point of making Northstar being a from Quebec and adding words like "mon ami" and "oui" after everything he says if one should cover the fact that he is a Quebecker.
Would it threathen you, mon cher ami, if Northstar actually looked like he was from Quebec as his creator claimed he was?
Snowsquatch I don't agree with everything, but that article is not dumb. Actually it so say a lot of interesting stuff.
I do think it's possible that a Quececers used a english codename, but maybe not something as hard to pronounced for a francophone as Northstar.Originally Posted by ComicBookBin
You should check the name in Alberta, that's where you will fine the name. For me it's close enough.The name Beaubier, for example may sound French, but it would be hard to find anyone with that name in a Quebec-based phone book.
I did read it the same way. I figured he is still a proud member of the PQ. I mean how can you go as far as been a terrorist for the cause and completly go to the "ennemy"? No, I found it more believable that the guy saw how stupid the violente way was, but never lost the reason why he join the FLQ, that's why JP should always be a souverainiste.About Northstar's political allegiances, when I read over my early Alpha Flight comics, I see someone who has no intention of being associated with the Canadian government. The only reason he stays at first, is because of his sister.
Because most writers don't have a clue what canada is all about, so image the weird place called Québec, no?My question to you is what's the point of making Northstar being a from Quebec and adding words like "mon ami" and "oui" after everything he says if one should cover the fact that he is a Quebecker.
Ah, but that's the same thing people are asking from all the cultural characters. Most is just du to ignorance and deadline. IMO of course. If someone asked me to write about a Norvegian, I think it would be pretty much stereotypical.:PWould it threathen you, mon cher ami, if Northstar actually looked like he was from Quebec as his creator claimed he was?
And thanks for the accent comment, I'm not the only one that complaining about it now.:P
I just think Northstar is not only the gay one or the quebecer one or the whatever one, he is all that and more, that's what makes him interesting and even if I would like to see a more accurate Québec seen in the comic, well, I just hope he will not change name to become Capitaine Québec.
Quand l'appétit va, tout va!
-Obélix
I never called you stupid or criticized anything you said. I was commenting on the article.
This isn't about politics in Quebec or Canada. It's about what Northstar is, and what he isn't.
Uh, it's a comic book. Everything is a bad cliche: from mad scientists to dull-witted Hulks to orphans-turned-vigilantees. Even the Sasquatch/Aurora romance was just a beauty and the beast fairy tale.
Complaining about Northstar's last name is a waste of time. Too late to complain about that now. Complaining about Northstar's codename is also a waste of time, for the same reason.
All your complaints about Northstar apply equally to other Alphans. Guardian is really just Iron-Man in a skin-tight suit, wearing the flag like Cap't America. Is that really "Canadian," or is it just a bad cliche? Shaman is just Dr Strange in a loin-cloth; Shaman isn't even a native Canadian word (it's Tibetan). Aurora and Puck are inaccurate caricatures of multiple-personality disorder and dwarfism respectively. EDIT: and of course, Puck says "eh?" in every sentence.
I too read over my AF stuff. Northstar is no longer a separatist.
From AF#25: "I have done things of which I am no longer proud, it is true. But I did them because I once believed in something. Something I once thought worth fighting for ... even worth dying for."
Northstar's aversion to AF has nothing to do with anglos or government. He just isn't interested in being a super-hero.
Not at all.
But re-writing Northstar into something he isn't doesn't accomplish anything. AF already has far too many continuity problems.
Northstar has a personality: he's a self-centered brat with a checkered past. He was an Olympic skier who cheated. He only joined AF to be close to his sister, not to be a hero. Oh, and he's gay. Everyone in AF knew it, and no one held it against him. They always valued him and wanted him to stay, but he always wanted to leave and be independent. He's a lone wolf, always uncomfortable in a team environment, always resenting authority.
Trying to "shoe-horn" a new "Quebecois" focus into an already complex character will only ruin him and lose focus.
I think you've recognized a "character gap" in comics: no "patriotic hero" emblematic of Quebec. That's fine. Maybe we need one. But what we don't need is yet another unnecessary re-imagining of an already popular super-hero.
What AF needs - more than anything - is a return to the Byrne-era character dynamics.
It's not unusual for people to switch allegiances. 1960's hippies are now neo-cons, some Reagan neo-cons are now liberals. Change happens, sometimes for the better, sometimes worse. Northstar going from a terrorist to a regular member of society (OK, not now, but in AF) is not unusual.
Keep your stick on the ice.
Live it.
Totally, but been a souverainiste/separatist is a regular member of society, no? Well, if not about 30 to 40% of the population of Québec is not. And yes people change. My brother do think Northstar is a federalist now, it's a matter of perception.
I do think in my own personal and maybe delusional way, that with Northstar, aurora and Jeanne-Marie, you can cover the big political opinions in Quebec, Northstar =separatist, Jeanne-Marie = federalist and Aurora = je m'en foutisme (I just don't care).
Anyway almost nothing been done in that aspect and usually if done it was horrible. I usually just want a good accent and names to be ok, the rest I think is almost to much to ask. It's like asking Puck to place the "eh" at the rigth place, you know, almost impossible :P
Quand l'appétit va, tout va!
-Obélix
In some ways, I think Aurora represents more characteristics of Quebec than Northstar.
Aurora's two personalities represent Quebec before and after the "Quiet Revolution." Repressed vs liberated.
About the Stupid comment the Edit button is a wonderful thing, isn't, eh?
What I want to know is who made you an authority on what Northstar is and what he isn't. The whole "super-hero from Quebec, not a Quebec super-hero" argument is not sound. The guy clearly is a Francophone Quebecker. As such there are things that one would expect from a Quebec character. using an English name is not one of them. It's like an Italian guy using a Chinese name as his monicker. That would sound weird to most. In the case of Northstar it is weird. One of the thing which annoys you about Northstar - his being from Quebec is not something one can brush aside easily.
What's the point of celebrating Canadian super heroes when one favours ignoring the qualities and cultures that compose Canada? Might as well move all of Alpha Flight to Rochester New York. I don't adhere to the unified Canadian view where the little Frenchies gently ignore their cultural identity in favour of a strong, homogenous CANADIAN identity.
Canada is not a unified culture. Many different components and people make up Canada.
Another thing that bugs me in this discussion is how separatism is somehow equated with terrorism. As if it was an evil thing and bad. It is a political view and a reality in Quebec. Myself being from Quebec, I know that people just don't switch to another side.
I feel that English Canadians always feel threatened when they hear about the real Quebec which is part separatist and part federalist.
What are you talking about? Are you accusing me of something?
I'm no authority. The authority is in the comic books themselves. The comic books say that Northstar was a militant separatist in his youth. However, it is completely silent about his mature political opinions. We don't know anything other than what he said in AF#25.
"But I did them because I once believed in something." Implication: I no longer believe in separatism.
Wrong. These are things you expect from a Quebec character.
This is the truth about Northstar's personality, more-or-less in order:
1) he's a life-long loner
2) he loves his sister more than anything
3) he's a self-centered brat
4) he resents authority-figures
5) he's gay
6) he has no love for the Martin family who raised him
7) he made stupid mistakes when he was young
You and I seem to have different expectations from our comic books. You want to see costumed super-heros debate politics and culture. I want to see super-heros fight super-villains and save the day.
Neither do I. You're stuffing words in my mouth.
The truth is: NONE of the characters in AF accurately reflect their background. This obsessive focus on Northstar is myopic.
No kidding? Huh!
I'm not doing that.
Nobody ever changes their mind in Quebec?
Again, you're stuffing words in my mouth.
I'm not against this Northstar revisionism for political reasons. This new interpretation just isn't supported by the comic book. Northstar just isn't the "truth, justice, and the Quebecois way" hero you want him to be.
My critique of this article:
While his sister, Aurora is a split personality, Northstar’s history is schizophrenic and really show a lack of understanding from all the authors who worked on him.
Sounds like everything in Alpha Flight.
BTW, schizophrenia != split personality disorder.
They tagged him with a bunch of Canadian clichés that in the sum, make the character somewhat a parody of recent Canadian history.
Again, sounds like everything in Alpha Flight.
First of all, being a separatist terrorist, and then working for Canadian government secret service and National Defence flies in the face of sound judgment on the part of the government and the individual involved.
The gov't didn't know he had been a terrorist.
He willingly accepted to stay with Alpha Flight. A separatist from Quebec would never do that.
That's like saying a separatist would never join the Army, which we know isn't true.
Besides, there are many, many other possible explanations: maybe he thought he owed a debt to society for being a terrorist in his youth? Or maybe he personally didn't see being a super-hero for Canada conflicted being a separatist for Quebec? After all, he competed for Canada in the Olympics, why can't he protect Canada as a hero? Or maybe he just wasn't a separatist anymore?
Finally, we already KNOW why Northstar stayed: to be with his sister. To Northstar, being with his sister is the most important thing in his life. Definitely more important than politics.
None of the comics ever explored why Northstar went along with terrorists. How could a circus performer be convinced to plant bombs in mailboxes?
Uh, because he was a kid? He felt unloved by his foster parents? He felt isolated because he was gay? He felt outcast because he was a mutant? Desperate people do desperate things all the time.
At most, the French Canadian cultural aspect of Northstar was explored, but never his motivation for an independent Quebec. In hindsight it looks shallow.
Kids do shallow, impulsive things all the time.
(Incidentally, I think Quebec separatism is inherently shallow.)
Northstar was also an Olympic medalist. Although Northstar has super speed powers, in order to achieve all of this, several years are necessary. Northstar is not older than 30 at most however.
Uh, so what?
Another thing that has always bugged me about Northstar and Aurora, is that they family name “Beaubier” is not a frequent family name in Quebec. The only Beaubier from Quebec I can find in search engines, are called Jean-Paul and Jeanne-Marie. They happen to be mutants.
So Byrne screwed up. Get over it.
Speaking of mutants, when he joined the X-Men teaching staff, Jean-Paul Beaubier taught economics and business. Nowhere in the character’s history did the character had any business involvement or experience.
Pointless hair-splitting. Who cares?
Speaking of hair: I'm amazing that this guy didn't complain about Northstar's uncertain hair-color in this endless rant. Is it black with white streaks? White with black streaks?
Perhaps it is no wonder that Norhtstar has no great following in the Province of Quebec.
In case you haven't noticed, Alpha Flight has no great following in Canada, either.
If Northstar was a Québécois nationalist and proud of his Quebec heritage, he would not call himself Northstar. He would be known by a French name like “Boréal” or something more appropriate. This is a major error that Marvel writers have never caught or even fixed.
So Byrne screwed up. Get over it. Re-naming Northstar to stroke the egos of Quebec nationalists is the stupidest part of this whole column.
Northstar’s soap opera history is characteristic of many comic book characters. One could argue that all these developments make him a richer character. I disagree. It makes him stand in for many trends and events in society but we still don’t know much about the character’s personality.
I've already mentioned: Northstar has a far more developed personality than any other member of AF.
We know that he overprotects his sister and is arrogant, but how does that make him different from Marvel’s best known speedster, Quicksilver?
What makes Guardian different from Iron Man? What makes Sasquatch different from the Hulk? What makes Shaman different from Dr Strange?
All this complaining about Northstar is pointless, because he's just like every other character in AF: a copy of a copy of a copy of something else, with a big maple leaf slapped on it.
This character has a lot of potential. However, I’d like to see him in a comic book where he doesn’t cut to French every three words.
I'd like to see Heather behave more like a leader and less like a mother hen. I'd like Puck to grow up and get over his crush on Heather, and stop saying "eh" at the end of every sentence. I'd like Snowbird to go to charm school. I'd like Shaman to behave like a real doctor and recommend therapy for Aurora.
Comic books are loaded with stupid cliches. Stop expecting Shakespeare.
I think it’s time for Northstar to come closer to his Québécois roots. Perhaps one day, Marvel will remember that Northstar is from Quebec.
Perhaps one day, Marvel will put out a decent Alpha Flight comic book. Perhaps, it will be a return to the Byrne-era greatness. Perhaps, it won't be yet another silly revision like the one recommended by Hervé St.Louis.
So you want a stereotype that conforms to your view of Quebec?
Byrne was asked about this on his board in recent months. As I remember it he said the hair is black. It's meant to be so black that the highlights are not the comics standard blue but white.
It was less obvious in their first appearances where the hair looked more white than black to my eyes.
Also, it's unclear who names the Alpha Flight characters. Was it Byrne or Clairemont? Chris was the one who chose the name Alpha Flight based on Weapon Alpha and a flight being a military grouping term. Byrne had suggested "The Canadian Shield" but it was considered too confusing in the Marvel Universe of SHIELD. I seem to recall he was not behind the name Vindicator since he thought Mac had nothing to vindicate for Canada.
Snowbird's secret ID comes from something Byrne did in his fan/early days and her mother's name is actually a nod to an old Canadian comic character / mythos.
He criticized Mantlo's finding a "reason" for Puck's pain when the disease Byrne named for causing the character's dwarfism can, apparently, be painful itself.
As an aside, the yellow costume for Aurora was just part of her story arc and wasn't meant as a permanent change.
Snowy...Maybe "Comicbins" is Monsieur St Louis?
Dana
Maybe. But look at his original post. He certainly didn't give any indications. I don't think it matters much one way or the other.
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