Let's build a rogue's gallery...

[Transmetropolitan]

... 'cause without distinctive nemeses, AF has very little reason to exist, sad to say.

Several interesting possibilities (Omega Flight, the Great Beasts) have come and gone... AF has no Magneto, no Doctor Doom, no Ultron.

What's to be done?

[Snowsquatch]

You are totally right, Trans. Lack of quality villains is AF's biggest problem.

"The Master" comes close to being the definitive AF villain. Too bad he had such a lousy name.

It seems to me that the Great Beasts lacked clear motivations (to readers), making them inappropriate. A great villain needs understandable desires and goals.

A newly designed villain would be great, but I don't hold out much hope for that.

What is to be done? I favor 3 approaches:

A. Make long-term or short-term villains out of some of the fallen Alphans, like Madison Jeffries and Aurora. And I would like to see Nemesis evolve into a villain. She's already half-way there. We just need that small event to push her over the edge, like the brutal murder of Rudy Princeton??

B. Make Earthmover a villain. I don't find him interesting as a hero, but he could be a great tragic villain. Most of AF's mystical foes were too inhuman, but Earthmover could be better understood. Trained by both Wolverine and Shaman, he is a great potential threat.

C. Resurrect a classic villain or two. (But make sure it's for the long haul, unlike Mantlo's one-issue return of Deadly Ernest.)

The Master could return to "stop a new alien invasion," which could actually be a paranoid delusion.

I'd like to see Smart Alec Thorne come back. Maybe his genius mind has been trapped in Shaman's pouch all this time? But the writer would need to give us plots and schemes worthy of a supra-genius. Otherwise, forget it.

Kolomaq is still trapped on Earth, not the Realm of Great Beasts, right? (See AF #6) He could escape again, if and only if the writer focused on giving him a personality and motivation we could sorta understand. (He's the only Great Beast I really liked, design-wise.) Attempting to bury Canada under a new ice age would be a worthy goal. We never got to see a Great Beast storming thru the streets of Toronto or anything, but I would love to see that.

How about General Clarke? Sure, he was killed by nuclear radiation in AF vol2 #12. But you know what radiation does in Marvel comics, right? I think a radiation-altered, brilliant military genius like Clarke could be a great villain. He could stage a vengeance plot (similar to Jerome Jaxon), but stick around to be a long-term Lex Luthor type enemy. No longer a government agent, Clarke could be an arms dealer, or a financier of foreign warlords, or a political insurrectionist. (Gotta do something about that bald head, though; we don't want him to look too much like Luthor. Maybe the radiation scarred him?)

Thoughts?

[Garry/Al-Fan]

[quote="Snowsquatch"] ...A newly designed villain would be great,...like Madison Jeffries...Nemesis...Earthmover.
(alone or as part of a new "Flight," they would be bad news for Alpha)
...Resurrect a classic villain or two...The Master could return to "stop a new alien invasion," which could actually be a paranoid delusion...
(That's what the S'kar episode seemed like to me, especially since he had injected himself with Scramble-fluid in #96---which he really didn't need to do, IMO.)
I'd like to see Smart Alec Thorne come back. Maybe his genius mind has been trapped in Shaman's pouch all this time? But the writer would need to give us plots and schemes worthy of a supra-genius. Otherwise, forget it.
(I'm all for Smart Alec coming back. The little-used Brain-Drain would be my candidate for restoring/assimilating/assuming Alec Thorne's alter-ego)
Kolomaq is still trapped on Earth, not the Realm of Great Beasts, right? (See AF #6) He could escape again, if and only if the writer focused on giving him a personality and motivation we could sorta understand. (He's the only Great Beast I really liked, design-wise.) Attempting to bury Canada under a new ice age would be a worthy goal....
(Yes!)
How about General Clarke? Sure, he was killed by nuclear radiation in AF vol2 #12. But you know what radiation does in Marvel comics, right? I think a radiation-altered, brilliant military genius like Clarke could be a great villain....
(Double yes!!)

[Barnacle13]

I've been saying Jefferies would give AF a Magneto level villain to battle. He'd ned a sweet call name though. I think he'd make a great Master if he assimilated the Plodex technology.

Wendigo should be a recurring villain, perhaps with a Wolverine crossover.

The Great Beast to me represent the mystical opponent for AF better than anything I can think up. Shaman, Talisman, and Snowbird should be working almost constantly to keep them in check as they try to enter this world.

Nemesis could also make a very interesting villain, especially if she began working for the other side in attempts to steal Guardian technology.

Aurora I'm not real sure on. I like her as a hero, even if she is a flawed one. I always had a hard time with her in Weapon X. Wild Child, too, for that matter. They just seemed too reluctant to be involved. Jefferies on the other hand seemed to enjoy his role.

[Mokole]

Dreamqueen

Persuasion, Witchfire, and Talisman form the 'prescient' Norns; depowered mutants like Manikin and mutants like Pathway follow them.

Wyre joins Brain Drain, Strongarm, Technoir, Jeffries and more mechs as the Hardliners , who to lead though....

Aurora and Northstar team up as destroyers, simply out to get damage done and keep doing it, no control anymore, Twins

Earthmover is taken over by the Master's spirit, no need for an Omega Flight anymore, Earthmaster

Ta da?

[Snowsquatch]

I've been saying Jefferies would give AF a Magneto level villain to battle. He'd ned a sweet call name though.

Not Box or Gemini? (Never really like those names either.) I think calling him by his real name is fine. I mean, everyone already knows his real name. (And Lex Luthor didn't need a name!)

I would like to see him back in the Box armor, or something similar. I just love the look of it.

Jeffries really does seem like the "do-it-all" villain. He's smart. He's a powerful mutant like Magneto. He can manufacture robotic minions. He can make and don cool armor like Iron Man, thus fly, shoot weapons, and fight strong opponents hand to hand.

But what does he want? A villain needs a goal. Is he a crazed mutant hunter? Cool powers but lame goals make for a crappy villain.

What about Diamond Lil? Should she rejoin AF, or join with her husband? (Dramatically, I prefer the latter.)

Wendigo should be a recurring villain, perhaps with a Wolverine crossover.

Yeah, ok.

The Great Beast to me represent the mystical opponent for AF better than anything I can think up. Shaman, Talisman, and Snowbird should be working almost constantly to keep them in check as they try to enter this world.

How about: Kolomaq escapes. After being defeated (but not captured or killed) by AF, he contacts the other Greats Beasts and offers a truce in exchange for escape from the Realm. One or two (say, Ranaq and Somon) agree, and they join forces. After AF destroys Ranaq, the alliance fails. The world is caught in the midst of a civil war between the forces of Somon and Kolomaq. [brainstorming is such fun!]

Nemesis could also make a very interesting villain, especially if she began working for the other side in attempts to steal Guardian technology.

I think Nemesis' motivations need to return to their roots: as a dark, heartless agent of vengeance. She doesn't seem to have a real purpose since Deadly Ernest was finally defeated. We also need to see her back-story cleared up. She created her sword herself - how did that come about? She's undead - how did that come about? [Remember those Bynre-era comics, where the last third of the book was the origin of one of the heroes? I would love to see that done again, this time explaining Nemesis and Puckette.]

Aurora I'm not real sure on. I like her as a hero, even if she is a flawed one. I always had a hard time with her in Weapon X. Wild Child, too, for that matter. They just seemed too reluctant to be involved. Jefferies on the other hand seemed to enjoy his role.

I think we need to wait until X-Men 189 and 190 to see what Marvel has in mind. I would love to see her as a short-term villain, but eventually redeemed and returned to AF. I would like to see her mental disorder cleared up or simplified in the redeeming.

[Snowsquatch]

Earthmover is taken over by the Master's spirit, no need for an Omega Flight anymore, Earthmaster

I like this idea. Would he wear the "Master" costume?

EDIT: maybe the costume would be shaped like the Master's, but would have the native-style markings on it?

Also, perhaps Earthmover brought this possession on himself, contacting the spirit of the Master but loosing control during the summoning? Also, very

[Transmetropolitan]

Actually, the preponderance of "ex"-Alphans cropping up on this list makes a "ressurected" Omega Flight an interesting possibility...

Have Jeffries in the lead.
The twins join up (neither of 'em exactly been a ray of sunshine lately)
Maybe a repowered Kyle
Earthmover shows up, ready to rumble
Nemesis gives in to her darker nature
Have Mac's latest ressurection be as a cyborg under Jeffries' control.

There ya go. A team of purely ex-hero, ex-AF types. It'd make the animosity personal, and give some nice tension to any obligatory slugfests. Also provides a framework for newer adversaries to come in, make their presence felt, and then fill out the ranks in case somebody (namely the twins or Kyle) pulls a surprise face turn.

As an aside, having both Lil and Heather on AF fighting these guys could be fun... Heather's kind of a serial widow, but what if she had to be the one to try and kill Mac? As for Lil, the beating she took from Jeffries' creations might have soured her on the relationship just a bit...

[Snowsquatch]

All great ideas, but...

Have Mac's latest ressurection be as a cyborg under Jeffries' control.... Heather's kind of a serial widow, but what if she had to be the one to try and kill Mac?

I don't think I want to see this. Or maybe I do? Damn, I just don't know...

[Transmetropolitan]

All great ideas, but...

Have Mac's latest ressurection be as a cyborg under Jeffries' control.... Heather's kind of a serial widow, but what if she had to be the one to try and kill Mac?

I don't think I want to see this. Or maybe I do? Damn, I just don't know...

Here's my thing- We all know Mac is coming back, if anybody is. So why not do something a bit different this time around?

[cmdrkoenig67]

My List:

The Master revived

New Omega Flight(A line up of disgruntled, former heroes and outright villains)

The Wendigo(I'd leave Wolvie out of his appearances, they don't always have to appear together)

The Great Beasts(rarely seen, except for a few big stories)

The Dream Queen

Pestilence(escapes from Shaman's medicine bag and finds new host body)

Mauvais(evil man-eating sorcerer from Wolverine...If Alpha should borrow any villains from another character or team, it should be from Wolverine or the X-Men)

Graviton(returns home to Canada and finds AF waiting for him, they peeve him off so much, he becomes an arch-enemy of theirs...I think the AF universe should claim this homegrown villain)

Jeffries as a villain sounds cool too.

Nemesis as what she's supposed to be...a deadly vigilante, who kills villains and evil-doers(that alone, would put her at odds with Alpha)

The Canadian branch of the Hellfire Club?(It was mentioned in a Wolverine story, I believe...some new villains could sprout from that seed)

Other villains that could appear(without feeling forced)...

The Mole Man(his domain extends under Canada too)

Aron the Watcher(he had a base in the Canada, didn't he?)

Hydra/A.I.M./The Ultimatum (international terrorist groups, could have bases in Canada)

I liked the idea of the Zodiac(as another villain team)

[Legerd]

Definitely revise and reinvision the Master. Keep him as the 'spider in the web' sort of villian, pulling the strings behind the scenes but more aggressive than he's been.

Omega Flight, IMO, is a tired idea. I'm all for ditching that concept unless it can be spiced up either with some major villains or don't limit them to battling AF only.

Please, no Deadly Ernest, Mauvais or Pestilence. I never found them to be, even by comic book standards, credible ideas for bad guys. Same goes for Pink Pearl.

Bring back Smart Alec, make him a major threat along the lines of the Master. Or maybe have him in possession of a super powerful Hulk-like body. Imagine his brains in a body the equal of Sasquatch or Box.

Yes to the Great Beasts, but only if they are written as apocolyptic level evil with god-like powers, as they've been described as possessing.

The Dream Queen, Wendigo and Graviton should all be permanent members of an AF rogues gallery.

Jefferies and Nemesis should be good guys. At the very least Nemesis should be a vigilante who works outside the law, but isn't considered a threat by AF. And I think it's a waste to have Madison as a brainwashed bad guy. He should be back in the Box armour.

AIM was shown to be active in Canada so they could easily still be a threat. Hydra, IIRC, was nearly wiped out by Wolverine and SHIELD so they might be using the Super Powers Registration Act to their advantage and rebuilding here rather than in the States.

Other established villians would be a great idea. It's the one thing I always felt the first series never really took advantage of. It would bring AF more into the Marvel U if they had more contact with known villians/heroes on a more regular basis.

[Snowsquatch]

I recently read AF#103, with Diablo. His "death" looks like a trick. I'd like to see him return, too. But I think he needs a costume re-design, like a full-body cloak rather than a skin-tight suit with silly briefs. I would also like to see genuinely "diabolical" plots.

But Gilded Lily can stay dead, thanks.

Omega Flight, IMO, is a tired idea.

Agreed.

Please, no Deadly Ernest, Mauvais or Pestilence. I never found them to be, even by comic book standards, credible ideas for bad guys. Same goes for Pink Pearl.

Again, I emphatically agree.

Bring back Smart Alec, make him a major threat along the lines of the Master. Or maybe have him in possession of a super powerful Hulk-like body. Imagine his brains in a body the equal of Sasquatch or Box.

Will he have his helmet?

Yes to the Great Beasts, but only if they are written as apocolyptic level evil with god-like powers, as they've been described as possessing.

Abso-f'n-lutely.

Jefferies and Nemesis should be good guys. At the very least Nemesis should be a vigilante who works outside the law, but isn't considered a threat by AF.

I think I prefer this idea:

Nemesis as what she's supposed to be...a deadly vigilante, who kills villains and evil-doers(that alone, would put her at odds with Alpha)

And I think it's a waste to have Madison as a brainwashed bad guy. He should be back in the Box armour.

Ok, but only after wrapping up his current status, perhaps by having AF track down and capture him, then reversing the brainwashing.

Whether as a long-term or short-term villain: I wanna see AF vs Jeffries!

[Legerd]

I recently read AF#103, with Diablo. His "death" looks like a trick. I'd like to see him return, too. But I think he needs a costume re-design, like a full-body cloak rather than a skin-tight suit with silly briefs. I would also like to see genuinely "diabolical" plots.

But Gilded Lily can stay dead, thanks.

Oh damn straight, on all points!

Bring back Smart Alec, make him a major threat along the lines of the Master. Or maybe have him in possession of a super powerful Hulk-like body. Imagine his brains in a body the equal of Sasquatch or Box.

Will he have his helmet?

If he rebuilds it.

Jefferies and Nemesis should be good guys. At the very least Nemesis should be a vigilante who works outside the law, but isn't considered a threat by AF.

I think I prefer this idea:

Nemesis as what she's supposed to be...a deadly vigilante, who kills villains and evil-doers(that alone, would put her at odds with Alpha)

That's why I said "at the very least". She should be a vigilante no matter what; whether or not AF treats her as a threat or a 'force for justice' is what I consider open to question.

And I think it's a waste to have Madison as a brainwashed bad guy. He should be back in the Box armour.

Ok, but only after wrapping up his current status, perhaps by having AF track down and capture him, then reversing the brainwashing.

Again, damn straight! Madison should be a part of AF, not some headcase used for evil ends. I also agree that his current plotline should be wrapped up and not simply ignored.

Whether as a long-term or short-term villain: I wanna see AF vs Jeffries!

I wouldn't be against a battle between Madison and AF when they show up to rescue him, but I don't care to see him as a long term villain. IMO he just doesn't suit the role.

[Mokole]

I'd prefer Jeffries as Box in AF, but Marvel keeps making him look weak-minded and would be better set up now as a weak villain aiding the Hardliners, as I listed them, or some such thing. But who knows?

Looking at what we've all said there's a great bead on the rogue's gallery already, it just needs beef from my point of view. Dreamqueen, Earthmaster, Norns, Hardliners, Mauvais, Pestilence, all different kinds of villains but no Manimator in the bunch.