Would You Sign The Superpowers Registration Act?

[Legerd]

If you had to sign the Superpowers Registration Act would you?

[DelBubs]

I went for the peeling from a cold dead body scenario. Allowing any registration of people because they may be different than the norm just sets a precedence. In a fantasy world like the MU it wouldn't have the ramifications it would have in our world. In our world it would be all to easy to then implement a registration of all the homosexuals etc.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Well, given my previous longwinded posts in other threads (and the fact that at the time of this posting there has been only one selected option), I think it is pretty obvious where I line up on this issue. In fact, I'm not entirely even sure that one of the options is valid (an indication of how extremely fascist this legislation is). I would rather give up my heroic career than reveal my identity. From the wording up to this point, this seems quite impossible, demanding that all individuals with powers (even possibly those not able-bodied enough to do so) would have to sign up and join the forces of SHIELD. "Retirement" from the superhero game would be impossible.

[Powersurge]

I didn't find an option for myself. I'm not what you would call a flag-waving type of person, and have no strong political beliefs or affiliations. However, I do believe it is hypocritical to defend a system you think is inherently flawed/immoral ... especially when you have the power to oppose and replace it. And I believe in the people, the common weal, and the idea that law evovled out of the collective will and exists to serve the common weal.

So, as reigstration seems to work well enough for the rest of us ... who are registrered with the governement in all sorts of various ways, I see no reason to be alarmist about it. and as I see alot of good coming from it, going far beyond super-powered police forces, concerted "War" efforts vs. crime .... such as in terms of health and welfare and search and rescue and reshaping environements, etc, etc. etc. I fully endorse registration.

If nothing else, you are putting a whopping load of courageous and heroic people into regular contact with each other. So, if any governement were to try something fishy, they would already have enabled their own defeat. Divide and conquor is the path to depowering the enemy, not unitung them. Just ask CSIS who apparently had to learn the hard way.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I picked "peel my costume from my cold, dead body!" too....It's just wrong.

Dana

[Powersurge]

I picked "tearing my costume from my cold, dead body"(paraphrased) too....It's just wrong.

Dana

Well then, lets just tear up our SIN cards, our Birth Certificates, our Police Id's, our Medical Degrees, our car liscences, our liscences and reigistrations to own and/or carry firearms, to practice law, to practice medicine, our citizenship cards, all laws on record, and oppose these stinking "Nazi's" together then. Im with ya all!!

[cmdrkoenig67]

Now you're just being silly.

Dana

[Mokole]

I picked "because I have to", like car insurance, user fees, food tax....

[DelBubs]

I picked "tearing my costume from my cold, dead body"(paraphrased) too....It's just wrong.

Dana

Well then, lets just tear up our SIN cards, our Birth Certificates, our Police Id's, our Medical Degrees, our car liscences, our liscences and reigistrations to own and/or carry firearms, to practice law, to practice medicine, our citizenship cards, all laws on record, and oppose these stinking "Nazi's" together then. Im with ya all!!

But surely everyone has to have all the items you listed and not just a select few who are asked to register that they are different than the majority. Once you aquiese to be labeled then a precedence is set for others to have to register as (considered) different also?

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Well then, lets just tear up our SIN cards, our Birth Certificates, our Police Id's, our Medical Degrees, our car liscences, our liscences and reigistrations to own and/or carry firearms, to practice law, to practice medicine, our citizenship cards, all laws on record, and oppose these stinking "Nazi's" together then. Im with ya all!!
I must admit that I should know better than to respond to such provoking, but instead I'm going to attempt to respond as rationally as I possibly can to these claims, despite the fact that I'm very emotionally tied to the issue.

Registering birth of human beings is not the same as registering superpowers. Registering superpowers is for the purpose of monitoring the activities of the individual, to restrict and control them. A birth certificate serves no other purpose than to simply identify an individual, and is used as a means to facilitate an individual's interaction with certain elements of society.

More comparable is police and medical liscenscing, in which an individual has chosen to go through significant training and has earned the liscence, thus making them accountable for their actions. However, the superhero registration act is for no such purpose. It does not posit that they should be given any such training but rather just that they should be monitored and controlled. They would become soldiers, to follow the orders of superior officers, and as you've pointed out, the most powerful of them are potentially weapons of mass destruction, and putting them into the hands of a questionable military operation is itself a danger. Most importantly, the act is not based around individuals who have chosen this path, but rather all people who possess such talents. While we have certain recruitment attempts in practice, encouraging the best of the best to follow these paths, they are by no means bound to it. In this case they would be. Again, my problem is this.

Also, while these beings themselves may have substantial destructive power, I do not believe they should not be considered to be firearms. My arguments on this have already been expressed I believe, and you've already rejected those, so I won't bother to express myself again.

And as to the claim on laws, yes, I do believe that this law should be destroyed. It does not, as it claims to do, serve the people, but rather restricts the freedoms of individuals in exchange for a more powerful military operation. The desire to abolish one law does not imply the abolition of all laws. As such, I've already posed the exact path by which I would like to see it shot down, as has happened many times within the history of the United States. The Supreme Court was created for the exact purpose of making sure that those fundamental rights are ensured, and I believe that in a realistic scenario they would be the ones to handle this catastrophe with ease. Additionally, this would not even be that much of an issue because they would issue a stay of the act, making it unable to go into effect until such a decision would be reached. However, I doubt this will ever come to fruitition, as it wouldn't make for the same good heated drama that it promises to now.

While I understand that we disagree on these ideas, and enjoy discussing them even with passion, can we try and keep it as civilized as possible?

I picked "because I have to", like car insurance, user fees, food tax....
Okay, I'm not sure if it was intentional or not, but all of these listed examples are voluntary choices... in fact, listing them really smacked me in the face because I realized that I'm not entirely sure whether or not I might or might not submit to the act... all those things are voluntary on behalf of the citizen, but as a result of the necessity of paying those fines (unavoidable almost) we go ahead and do them anyways... and admittedly if I had powers I would do nearly anything I could in order to use them... including such a registration... still, I'd be hesitant to do so on the basis of the compulsion... if it were no actually a forced measure (as is the case with those listed above), then I would most probably be whole heartedly for it.

Edit: But surely everyone has to have all the items you listed and not just a select few who are asked to register that they are different than the majority. Once you aquiese to be labeled then a precedence is set for others to have to register as (considered) different also?
Well put! Much better than I could ever put it.

[Powersurge]

By the same token does it not set a bad precedent once you allow one group to put on mask and mete out justice according to their own will and whim? Do you not open the door for anyone to do that?

And really, how do you know who is under the mask at any given time?
What stopping Erbert the Pervert from puttign on a Spidey costume and luring young children away? Or YOU placing your trust in someone you thought was a hero, only to find out the hard way that anyone can don a costum and put on an act?

I oppose the double standard. If THEY can regularly hide their identites, kick down doors, and smash peoples faces in for acts THEY perceive to be wrong, then so can you or me or anyone. If they can walk about casually with the destructive power of a nuke a mere whim of their will away, then whats the big deal about me owning or carrying or using an assualt rifle whenever I please or stock piling weapons ... like an Iron Man or other tech.head? That is the message THEY are sending. However, if thats the WRONG message to be sending, and it is, then the so-called heroes need to get with the same programm all of us are held to and begin sending the RIGHT message and operating on the RIGHT side .... that of the people and state/s they claim to care about and want to protect, as opposed to their own side.

And if people suck so bad. If our governements are so irremdeemably evil, then start acting like heroes ... oppose us and topple them.

[Ben]

One of the big probmes I see with having a database of identities is the possibility of it falling into the wrong hands. How often have organizations like AIM, or HYDRA stolen governemt information? And look, they nearly totally destroyed SHIELD at on point! Many of those who secret thier identities are for the sake of the ones they love. If it becomes known who and where these super-powered people are, thier families are instantly at risk.

Ben

[Legerd]

One of the big probmes I see with having a database of identities is the possibility of it falling into the wrong hands. How often have organizations like AIM, or HYDRA stolen governemt information? And look, they nearly totally destroyed SHIELD at on point! Many of those who secret thier identities are for the sake of the ones they love. If it becomes known who and where these super-powered people are, thier families are instantly at risk.

Ben

True, but at this stage of the game do you think the premier policing organization SHIELD would not already have dossiers on just about every known hero and villain already? Storywise it makes perfect sense to me that Nick Fury would have been doing this over the years whether it was out of a sense of being prepared for any eventuality (as with the Xavier Files in the X-men) or just plain paranoia on the part of his superiors.

[Powersurge]

Undercover cops are often required to infiltrate organizations; and ones that are known to have cops of their own on the organizational payroll at that! And both they and their families are at equally risk of reprisal if discovered. If a regular Joe-Cop can shoulder the task, why not a super-duper man?

Reflecting on the actual matter as Shaman keeps trying to point out, ie. the propasal as present by Iron Man forces all registered into SHIELD service ... I have to clarify that I am very much against the indentured servant model being proposed. Not all metahuman powers have practical military or law enforcement application, and there currently exists enough willing combatants that no one should have to be pressed into an unwanted profession.

So, I guess if those are the terms, I must oppose the Act. However, if that detail were amended to something more... realistic, then I'd continue to support the idea.

I mean, I just re-read the issue, and took a long hard look at the last couple of pages. There is the school bus, a schoolyard full of elementary-aged kids at play, and there is a guy who can explode and "Fish Girl" totally oblivious to the kids, daring Nitro to explode so she can hit him harder.

I have two elementary school children. She couldn't have fallen back, let him think he was getting away, and then nailed him at a better time and place? She couldn't at least have grabbed him and gone soaring high into the sky with him.. making an attempt to place those children out of harms way? If she had been properly trained and prepared, she would have and all of those children wouldn't be dead. And all of their living friends and relatives wouldn't be crushed with anguish.

But hey, she saved us from the bad guys, eh?

[DelBubs]

By the same token does it not set a bad precedent once you allow one group to put on mask and mete out justice according to their own will and whim? Do you not open the door for anyone to do that?

And really, how do you know who is under the mask at any given time?
What stopping Erbert the Pervert from puttign on a Spidey costume and luring young children away? Or YOU placing your trust in someone you thought was a hero, only to find out the hard way that anyone can don a costum and put on an act?

I oppose the double standard. If THEY can regularly hide their identites, kick down doors, and smash peoples faces in for acts THEY perceive to be wrong, then so can you or me or anyone. If they can walk about casually with the destructive power of a nuke a mere whim of their will away, then whats the big deal about me owning or carrying or using an assualt rifle whenever I please or stock piling weapons ... like an Iron Man or other tech.head? That is the message THEY are sending. However, if thats the WRONG message to be sending, and it is, then the so-called heroes need to get with the same programm all of us are held to and begin sending the RIGHT message and operating on the RIGHT side .... that of the people and state/s they claim to care about and want to protect, as opposed to their own side.

And if people suck so bad. If our governements are so irremdeemably evil, then start acting like heroes ... oppose us and topple them.

If a super powered person breaks a law or commits a crime then I see no problem with his details being recorded, much like comvicted criminals have their DNA profile recorded. How would you feel however, if you were told that a record of your DNA was required, because you came from a demographic that may one day commit a crime?

It is not so much the concept of asking living weapons to register their details that I have a problem with, but the can of worms that could be opened by doing so.

How would you enforce such a thing, there would be those willing to register straight away, but what about the rest? How are you going to enforce it? What about a character who has the power to cause great damage, but has lived in anonimity, choosing to live a standard life with wife and kids etc. Why should he be made to register?

If Mr Anonimity from above chooses to register, how are law enforcement going to recognise him if he returns to anonimity. How big a step is it for him to be asked to wear some kinda of badge that depicts him as super powered? If he registers, he labels himself, by labeling himself he sets himself aside as different from the percieved norm, once a person is percieved as different, how long before he is discriminated against?

As for Heroes seeing their government as inherently wrong and trying to implement change has been explored in in the Squadron Supreme mini series and The recent Authority series, both times the idea failed. Super Heroes aware that any change cannot be implemented, but only influenced.