NA: ILLUMINATI (spoilers)

[cmdrkoenig67]

True, they did not have superpowers, but they were indeed judged on the basis of both birth traits and lifestyle choics,

"Lifestyle choice"? Do you have any idea how immensly incorrect/offensive that term is for/to gays, SOTW? I did not choose to be gay...I just am.

People, whether they be straight, gay, bi, etc...can't just choose to be who they are/how they feel/who they're attracted to. We are who we are...period.

I'm not starting anything, just making a point.

Dana

[Shaman Of The Whills]

And this is one of the fundamental problems with superhumans ... the belief that they comprise a seperate community. The community is the people, not some select segment of the people.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, except for in reverse... they deserve to be respected by the rest of the community, namely the non-superhumans... they are people to, and have just the same rights as everyone else. Why shouldn't a normal person be forced to register and sign up for SHIELD to serve the government then?

A difference in skin pigmentation, though perhaps a variation in a gene, isn't one that can vapourize a city block via a simple act of will, or take over a persons mind and will.
Make a judgment on one element of genes and you must make a judgment upon all of them. And there was a time when other races were considered evil and inhuman. And I'm sure that the ability to summon squirrels is definetely a threat.

You are exactly right. You are registered, and your country DOES NOT give you a job on birth. Likewsie, once you complete your education in whatever field you have chosen, your country STILL does not give you anything. This is not even an issue, and only serves to demonstraet how registration is not some horror show waiting to happen, but part and parcel and right there beneath everyone's nose already. And has been all along. The primary issue is superhumans who have CHOSEN to exercise their powers in a deemed both illiegal and anti-social by society at large. They have chosen to act as our police. THat being the bed they made, such people are merely being forced to lay in it. Or perhaps every citizen sould feel that they have the right to put on a mask, smash in a door, and kick someone's teeth in whenever they, as individuals, decided someone has done wrong?
The primary issue it may be, but it is not the only issue, which if you'll read my posts is my main problem of it. The quote from Tony Stark says that all people possessing superpowers must register or be seen as violating federal law. In a sense, they are actually being encouraged to use their powers, but only in the exact ways specified by the government so how is that any difference? And way to spin my words. I'm not arguing for the right of citizens to smash people's teeth in. I'm arguing for defense of common man, to which there has been little objection. I'd like to note that I already said that I was a bit uncertain about the actions of the New Warriors. And what is actually being argued by the superhero registration act is that they should no longer make the decisions as to the battles they fight, but that they should be servants of the government.

Once again, it very easy for us readers to sympathize with our heroes. We KNOW they're that. We see every situation they are invovled in from conception to resolution, and we are privy to their every thought and feeling, whilst they are completely unaware of us and our scrutiny. To seek to apply THAT to the MU would be grossly unfair.
For the most part, I would agree on the reader bias perspective, however, it is clear within the Marvel universe that many of these heroes are seen as just that, evidenced by the recent trend in showing kids worshiping these heroes (Alex Wilder, Franklin Richards, Molly Hayes) as such.

One can only think though that if Namorita had had the proper training she would have found an altenrative to slamming Nitro, who powers hsould have been known prior, into a school bus in front of a school full of children. She can fly for crying out loud? Why are cops encourage to break off high speed pursuits in residential areas? We know what could happen if they didn't. So do they. And if they fail do what is, or should be, right and obvious, they should be held accountable themselves. Not to some little Star Chamber. To society.
Like I said, I'm not condoning the actions of the New Warriors. But making broad generalizations about heroes, inside and outside of the MU is a bit unfair.

Incidently, anyone think that these are the arguemetns that should have been going on in Illuminati?

"Lifestyle choice"? Do you have any idea how immensly incorrect/offensive that term is for/to gays, SOTW? I did not choose to be gay...I just am.
Did I say that I was referring to homosexuals? No, I didn't. Was I? No. I know how homosexuality works, and I'm not the insensitive moron you made me out to be within the period of one post. While I may not be homosexual myself, I've had enough of an intimate experience with the homosexual lifestyle to be quite certain that I understand exactly how it works. My father is a gay man who is now happily married to a partner, and I am in fact the product of such a happy marriage. So please, don't think I meant to imply any insult to homosexuals.

While this is as much an arguable thing, I was actually referring to religious choices, which I know sets me up for just as much of a bullet to the head (especially here where it seems like I've been caught in such shots ever since my arrival). From at least the modern viewpoint, religion is a lifestyle viewpoint, even if one is born into it (and as was the case with Jews in Nazi Germany, labeled a race and unable to remove such a brand from themselves even if they did not associate with the Jewish beliefs).

Once again, I intended no offense to any people in comparing the mutant problem to real world issues, although I certainly will earn much heat for doing so.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I am not angry at you, SOTW....nor did I intend you to look like an insensitive moron....I despise the term "lifestyle choice" when being used in context with being gay/referring to homosexuals.

Dana

[Le Messor]

I am not angry at you, SOTW....nor did I intend you to look like an insensitive moron....I despise the term "lifestyle choice" when being used in context with being gay/referring to homosexuals.
Dana

That's... odd? I've often heard gay people use that term. In fact, it's become a minor cliché for me. If I hear somebody say 'so-and-so might disagree with my... lifestyle choices...' I assume they're gay, and don't want to say it.

That said, I don't, never did, think you chose who you were attracted to. I've known too many Christians who are frustrated over their same-sex attraction to believe you do.

- Le Messor
Wednesday, as an Indian, ad-libbing during a Thanksgiving play:
"Wait. We can not break bread with you. You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations. Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell our bracelets by the road sides, and you will play golf, and eat hot h'ors d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation. Your people will have stick shifts. The gods of my tribe have spoken. They said do not trust the pilgrims, especially Sarah Miller. And for all of these reasons I have decided to scalp you and burn your village to the ground."

[cmdrkoenig67]

Most of the gay folks I know, hate the term.

Dana

[kozzi24]

Part of the problem I have is with Tony Stark...his character has been consistently written over the years, and as stated earlier in the thread, all his choices ALWAYS serve himself and his own agendas best. How different would his side be if he was not currently open about his identity in the MU? The Armor Wars were one example of this, but let's not forget that the man mindwiped the world to protect his identity.

I was disappointed in the lack of Alpha content in the story thus far. Canada enacted a powers registration act, and that should have been mentioned by now. Take the existence of "First Flight", and I would think Stark would have known of this James Hudson guy up North who was working with Canadian Superhumans, and he should have been involved in the Illuminati up until his first death. Afterwards, there could have been enough confusion concerning his identity that he would have been excluded.

[cmdrkoenig67]

All I have to say about any lack of AF content in Marvel books(Civil War included) is.....I expected nothing(If they do appear, I'll be very surprised, maybe delighted...depending on how they're used). AF fans should be very familiar with their favorite heroes being ignored.

Dana

Edited for typos

[Ben]

All I have to say about any lack of AF content in Marvel books(Civil War included) is.....I expected nothing(If they do appear, I'll be very surprised, maybe delighted...dependign on how they're used). AF fans should be very familiar with their favorite heroes being ignored.

Dana

Oh, don't you worry about AF being involved in civil war.

Ben

[Legerd]

All I have to say about any lack of AF content in Marvel books(Civil War included) is.....I expected nothing(If they do appear, I'll be very surprised, maybe delighted...dependign on how they're used). AF fans should be very familiar with their favorite heroes being ignored.

Dana

Oh, don't you worry about AF being involved in civil war.

Ben

Is there something you know? Hmmmmm?

[Phil]

All I have to say about any lack of AF content in Marvel books(Civil War included) is.....I expected nothing(If they do appear, I'll be very surprised, maybe delighted...dependign on how they're used). AF fans should be very familiar with their favorite heroes being ignored.

Dana

Oh, don't you worry about AF being involved in civil war.

Ben

[cmdrkoenig67]

Me worry? Feh...I'm just not expecting anything OR getting my hopes up. :P

Hopefully, Phil will keep us appraised of any AF appearances in this Civil War mess.

Dana

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Ben, unless you're sworn to an oath of secrecy in blood, you should totally spill this secret information that you're apparently hiding from us... even if it was in blood, we've got plenty of smart people in here, I'm sure we can find a loophole... but so you're sure they'll be involved in Civil War? Maybe the other long unseen members... but everyone keeps saying to look in the wake rather the wave...

[Phil]

As soon as I see appearances, they'll be listed.
But I'm a day behind most of you, so I imagine I'll be beaten to it

And as to any info Ben may or may not have been given, if he hasn't shared it with us I'd imagine he's been asked not to, and he's got to respect that.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

And as to any info Ben may or may not have been given, if he hasn't shared it with us I'd imagine he's been asked not to, and he's got to respect that.
Oh yeah, I was mainly just teasing...

I can't see them starting off the series too early anyways... with the context that we've been given (or that we've assumed) right now, it doesn't seem like they'd even have a role in the first two issues. I can't see too much of the actual conflict happening in the first book anyways... especially if it follows the House of M formula of Step 1: Re-introduce all characters and scenarios of the past year, Step 2: Build Suspense Through Dialogue Step 3: Attempt Big Reveal to start series... And issue 2 I think will also still be focused on the big big names anyways.

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