Nicely Summed Up

[Legerd]

Here's a great article by Paul Sebert that, in the end, quite nicely sums up why AF is going to have a helluva time getting another series.

http://www.insidepulse.com/articles/46717

[PWalk]

Wow...

That does just about sum it all up doesn't it. Great read.

[Transmetropolitan]

Considering some of AF's... checkered history...

It wouldn't be the first time Marvel conveniently ignored some continuity...

Remember Roma's gift to the X-Men? The whole, "invisible to sensors" thing?


Which never came up again.

Alpha Flight could stand to ditch a few patches of its history...

[Mokole]

It was interesting but to me well known stuff. Alpha Flight could use a bit of a break from its past, for sure, but maybe facing it and claeing up that continuity would work wonders.

Let's say Heather, Puck, Sasquatch, and Shaman alone survived New Avengers:

- Heather leads a hostile takeover of Department H. We find out that Dept. H was so big because it developed tech and research then sold it. The synthoid tech was sold to SHIELD, for example, while Woodgod's DNA profile to AIM and the Hull House kids were experiments on turning normal humans into mutants, which ultimately failed. The Canadian gov't was unaware of a lot of the deals, got wind of some such thing from Oculus, so allowed Heather to enact her hostile takeover. She is now Director Hudson.

Judd is on board as Head of Training and Espionage. Walter is head of Science and Engineering. Michael is head of Health and Medicine. Oculus works for Puck.

Albert Louis is brought in as Guardian. Witchfire is now Nemesis. Persuasion and Talisman join. Pathway has her powers, Goblyn doesn't. One new character, an Inuit paranormal, is the last member.

Other ex-Afers have no powers, courtesy HoM. Some wind up working for a fully cyborg Omega Flight, like Wyre. The Master is dead so Omega Flight are mercs, working for whoever pays them. They will get a leader soon enough.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

I voted for getting rid of some of the characters, namely because certain ones just don't really belong... although, I was actually most in favor of the 'adding' selection, but the inclusion of the AND was the part that made me hesitate, primarily because I think that many new villains should be established, while the heroes roster is certainly full enough.

[Legerd]

I voted for getting rid of some of the characters, namely because certain ones just don't really belong... although, I was actually most in favor of the 'adding' selection, but the inclusion of the AND was the part that made me hesitate, primarily because I think that many new villains should be established, while the heroes roster is certainly full enough.

I meant it as you could add established villains AF hadn't faced before as well as brand new ones, with the same being said for heroes. Sorry I wasn't clearer on that.

[Bill]

Ahhh... The Byrne era. How I miss it.

[Snowsquatch]

I think a simpler AF would work best.

Core members:

Shaman, Sasquatch, Puck, Heather
Maybe Jeffries (back in the robo-suit)

I think the other characters could still be seen ocassionally. Narya could visit Shaman in his visions. Lillian Jeffries would appear now and again.

But AF really needs some fresh villians. More than anything else, AF is missing that villian you love to hate.

I really think that Shaman and Sasquatch are the only truly indispensible characters. Then put someone in the flag-suit for a third member.

Maybe Heather and Mac could retire?

Maybe Jeffries could don the flag-suit? (Maybe a merged Box/Guardian suit? )

Could Shaman, Sassy, Jeffries, Lil, and Puck work as AF?

Lil would need a new suit. I like this idea:

[Garry/Al-Fan]

No big surprise, there. Dept. H is rotten to the core, and the Seagle version is just plain evil and needs to be put out of commission. By Alpha Flight...who have villians who can plausibly un-do a lot of the continuity discrepancies, DreamQueen for one, Llan the Sorcerer for another. Nightmare, just for spikes sake. Headlok, messing with their minds. Loki.
Mephisto.

I like Snowsquatch's thinking outside of the box. Most incarnations try to put Heather and James in the book in odd ways that just don't seem to work. Leave 'em out for a bit, let folks miss them, then think of a good way to bring them back. But, Sasquatch in a dress is just plain wrong, Sasquatch beating up women and nobody else is doubly-wrong, and The Master breaking Sasquatch's arm is stretching it a bit, so if this is how he's going to be used...leave him out, too. Don't bring him back until he can heft an airplane or a navy battleship. Period. End-of-story.

Snowsquatch is right, though. Shake the line-up...a little.

Just read the article and I agree with Mr. Sebert's assessment. You know I'm not a big "continuity" proponent (and probably never will be) and the article explains why. Doing good stories, while de-emphasizing "the garbage," is the challenge for the next creative team that tackles AF.

I hope they are up to it.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

This kinda falls in line with some of the other suggestions... but one of the reasons why I picked the getting rid of some characters option is to instill some danger into the Alpha Flight comic... actually, ever since Mac's return, I felt like "the bubble" was back... by that I'm talking about that protective bubble that wraps around the characters like they are all pretty much invincible... now I'm not saying that they should all be in the sights and ready for termination at every moment... but we should just worry for the safety of the characters as they head into their battles... so that they have to face some true challenges and when they get out of it we're all the happier... I think one of the brilliant elements of Mac's death is that it really did shred that bubble for me in a way that so few other comics have (Countdown's BB death aside)... I'm also not proposing that there should be some kind of ever changing rotating roster... but so when one of them gets hit, we all kinda get that lump in our throats, wondering whether or not they'll make it...

[HappyCanuck]

Heh, nice to know someone likes my little redesign (although I did a better one, imo, not too long ago - I try and post it here soon)

[Barnacle13]

I'm for a retired Mac and Heather or perhaps putting them into civillian roles within Alpha Flight.

I think the best villain Alpha Flight could have right now would be the demented Maddison Jefferies as the new Master. Hook him up with the Plodex mothership and let him start cooking. Imagine the internal turmoil the Byrne era characters would have facing off against one of their own, yet wanting to help him at the same time. Jefferies could be an A class villain. Up there with Magneto!

I'd have Sasquatch, Puck, Talisman(with the Shaman Pouch), Snowbird, a new Vindicator type character (named Province or something else a bit more Canadacentric), and perhaps Flex or one of the later V1 characters (Wild Child, Witchfire, Pathway, Persuasion, etc)

And in the first issue I'd have them pulling the Avengers or X-Men's fat outta the fire!

[kozzi24]

I voted to get rid of characters, specifically all the newbies from Volumes 2 & 3, but also later Volume 1 additions. I like Persuasion, but her power makes her difficult to write as a hero, because she would either solve the problem by controlling it, or there's endless excuses why her power does not work on each successive opponent. House of M provides opportunity for the removal of many of the later characters. "Getting rid of" does not have to mean "killing." If Persuasion, Manikin, Goblyn, and Feedback are depowered, much of the heard is culled without death. Many could become support staff. I left Pathway off the list because her power is very useful if she is utilized as a means of transportation but not a combatant, and there's story to tell if only one of those twins lost her powers on M-Day...What if Goblyn becomes the prettier sister after so long as a monster? What if the Dean parents accept Goblyn but no longer want to associate with the remaining mutant?
With the exception of the twins (their differing personalities and backgrounds add considerable depth), redundant abilities should be eliminated. It's best to use prior character motivations. Talisman should be working on her archeology degree, leaving Shaman for the field. Mac should be a scientist (an occupation that also leaves him the ability to be house husband and full-time father), leaving the adventuring to his more capable and experienced wife.
I think the failures of V's 2 & 3 has a lot to do with an Alpha Flight title without many Alpha Flight characters. The team needs villains and opponents, but the last things it needs is more members. Characters like Wildchild, Wyre, Witchfire, Nemesis, Persuasion, and, given his history since Volume 2, Madison Jeffries would all make great adversaries. Their history with the team adds a certain emotional depth to any confrontation.
One key to the success of this is to do it without info dumps or needing to show every member. One question from Puck in issue 4 "Liz's studies going well, eh?" establishes Talisman's absence. Heather's statement "I got a postcard from Kara and Albert from Cancun" establishes that Persuasion and Feedback got together after losing their powers.

The inherent problem is almost every character will be someone's favorite, so there is absolutely no way to satisfy everyone.

It's also my opinion that ignoring some history is better than revisiting it in any way, including to retcon.

[Le Messor]

Remember Roma's gift to the X-Men? The whole, "invisible to sensors" thing? Which never came up again.

Actually...

I remember one issue, where they're breaking into Genosha, and the prison controller watches the camera, seeing one person walking in, but the guards keep reporting three. She then figures out the X-Men are invading.

The, when Xavier came back, and found out about it, his reaction is, like "It's a wonder you survived without me!" I think that's about when they took it off.

Heather leads a hostile takeover of Department H. We find out that Dept. H was so big because it developed tech and research then sold it.

Kinda the plot of X-Men / Alpha Flight 2: Gary Cody has been selling Hydra the designs for Mac's suits. Especially effective in the scene where a crowd of their agents try Mac's 'stop in relation to the spinning world' trick, inside, and don't end up a smear of raspberry jam along the east wall. Or west. I don't know directions.

Mmm... jam...

- Le Messor
Glen: Anything wrong, Davy?
Davy: Yeah, I got paid today.
Glen: Yeah, I know what that's like.
Davy: No. You don't understand. They laid me off. I got one of these.
Glen: Yeah, I know how that feels.
Davy: Know what I'd like to do?
Glen: Yeah I know what you'd like to do. You'd like to find the guy who did it, rip his still beating heart out of his chest and hold it in front of his face so he can see how black it is before he dies.
Davy: Actually, I was thinking of filing a grievance with the union.
Glen: Well, the world's a twisted place.

[Snowsquatch]

I'd have Sasquatch, Puck, Talisman(with the Shaman Pouch), Snowbird, a new Vindicator type character (named Province or something else a bit more Canadacentric), and perhaps Flex or one of the later V1 characters (Wild Child, Witchfire, Pathway, Persuasion, etc)

Province? Sorry, that's really bad.

If someone else dons the flag suit, they should keep the name Guardian too. How many people wore the Captain America or Iron Man suits but still kept the name?[/i]