New Avengers #17 -- *Spoilers*

[Powersurge]

Not if they came from the past of an alternate timeline.

[Ben]

Well let's assume these were the time-displaced versions.


If the past selves of the current Alpha Flight were killed, wouldn't the current Alpha Flight cease to exist?

No, because they were pulled from one of the alternate time-lines that Alpha created by playing with time.

Ben

[Le Messor]

...um...does Wolverine really have to ask if that is Alpha Flight?

Why not? I do!

Hmm... Is it just me, or is it real appropriate right now that Mr. Brevoort is now being called Tomb?

- Le Messor
"Established technology tends to persist in spite of new technology."

[Mokole]

I really doubt that the the AF is time-displaced or not THE AF or anything like that. If Bendis thought of it that when then Heather wouldn't have been there, really. Either way I see this as Alpha Flight and that's it. Who cares about the space travel and Plodex, they're back and that's them with Zuzha and the Major.

Who's dead, what's a 'deck clearing' supposed to mean, what kind of revamp, how will Millar use Alpha Flight, who will make up Alpha Flight in Civil War, and so on.

[Legerd]

Okay everyone, I guess we can calm down a bit I just came across this quote:

Alpha Flight isn't dead, says Bendis, “only napping.”

This was found at: http://www.comicbookresources.com/ne...em.cgi?id=6930

Further more, if this quote from Brevoort can be taken at face value AF will appear in Civil War somewhere:

The only characters intentionally left out of “Civil War” are Hulk and the “Annihilation” characters, because “Hulk is on planet Hulk; characters in Annihilation because they're in space being annihilated.” Brevoort also promised an appearance by Prodigy from the Slingers. “Dead,” quipped Quesada.

And...

There is a possibility of some characters finding asylum in non-American nations during “Civil War.”

I don't know who to credit with having said this, however.

These were all found at the above link from an article posted on March 18. If these have been posted in other threads on this forum I apologize for the duplication, but would figured it was too important to miss.

Edit: I found this as well:

Brevoort said the larger Civil War storyline will see more obscure characters coming back to light, some that have been long forgotten, and some, according to Brevoort, who may be right under reader's noses.
"And isn't Mark Millar doing something with Alpha Flight?" Bendis asked.

"I think he's writing Alpha Flight," Quesada replied.

http://www.newsarama.com/NYCC/Marvel...War/report.htm

Oh they taunt us... they taunt us!!!

[Transmetropolitan]

It's okay.

I'll keep jumping for the prize that may or may not be there...

It's one of the few places I'll allow myself some optimism...

[Le Messor]

There is a possibility of some characters finding asylum in non-American nations during “Civil War.”

I don't know who to credit with having said this, however.

Of course, that technically should knock out Canada. It's in America, isn't it? Is it? Who can find it, all tucked away down there?

Of course, that was said in the USA, so it probably doesn't preclude Canada. Then again, watch Outbreak, about a heavy-infestation virus that respects international borders...

- Le Messor
Wayne opens a door and shows a bunch of spies in training
Garth Algar: What are you gonna do with these guys?
Wayne Campbell: Nothing, really. I just always wanted to open a door on a bunch of guys in training, like in a James Bond movie.

[Legerd]

There is a possibility of some characters finding asylum in non-American nations during “Civil War.”

I don't know who to credit with having said this, however.

Of course, that technically should knock out Canada. It's in America, isn't it? Is it? Who can find it, all tucked away down there?

Of course, that was said in the USA, so it probably doesn't preclude Canada. Then again, watch Outbreak, about a heavy-infestation virus that respects international borders...

- Le Messor
Wayne opens a door and shows a bunch of spies in training
Garth Algar: What are you gonna do with these guys?
Wayne Campbell: Nothing, really. I just always wanted to open a door on a bunch of guys in training, like in a James Bond movie.

Canada may be a part of North America, but it isn't part of America (as in the USA), we're a sovereign nation with seperate laws and institutions, etc. Just as we aren't affected by the American Patriot Act in the real world, Marvel U's Canada would not be affected by the Marvel U's American Super Powers Registration Act. Laws (unlike viruses) do respect borders. Of course Marvel U's Canada flirted with such an act in the past, but as far as I know it was never passed into law. If Marvel is including Canada as "American" than I guess they're including Mexico and all the countries of South America as well. If they're only including Canada then it's the typical ignorance, laziness and poor writing I've come to expect from them.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Actually all this is kinda frustrating my mind because I'm not really sure even what the issue is exactly... this whole registration issue for me seems a bit crazy, just because it is so ill explained at this point, and if anyone can clue me in I'd be much appreciative. Is this act based around all individuals using super powers, who would then be registered to monitor their powers? Is it superpowered individuals using their powers in this grander 'fight against evil'? Is it all vigilanteish individuals acting out? Because there are several characters who would be involved under certain ones of those categories but not others. After all, what if one of these superpowered being wanted to retire? What if such an inactive character acted as a good samaritan seeing an individual being robbed on the street? And furthermore, such samaritan activities are not regulated by normal law, so why should they be in the case of superpowered individuals? Also, if it is based around just the having of superpowers, then it really just becomes an extension of the mutant registration act, which already has been covered by many of these heroes. I really just think that they need to start actually telling us what is going on, so we can get this stuff straigthened out.

[Legerd]

A quote by Iron Man states: "Anyone with powers... anyone in costume... any mutants... any of our kind is going to be required by law to reveal themselves to the United States government. In return the registered hero will be given a job as a guard in the new SHIELD Security Force. You will get to be a superhero, but you will have to answer to someone. Refusing to do so will be considered a federal crime."

Link to the page with the quote:
http://www.comicboards.com/avengers/...27/ff536p5.jpg


Link to the page with the page with the quote:
http://www.comicboards.com/avengers/...d=060323134227


I can't wait to see the poor schlub who tries to force Juggernaut to register. I wonder what happens if an ET like the Silver Surfer shows up? Do they need to get a special license to be on Earth?

EDIT: I thought SHIELD was a UN force not merely an American one. If they are how can the US dictate to them how they operate?

[Le Messor]

Refusing to do so will be considered a federal crime.
EDIT: I thought SHIELD was a UN force not merely an American one. If they are how can the US dictate to them how they operate?

It was. Is it?

A Federal Crime? It'd have to be an international crime, to be SHIELD jurisdiction; if they're UN, not US.

See my other posts.

- Le Messor
"And even when you've changed it all condensed it, I'm against it!" - Groucho Marx in Horse Feathers

[Legerd]

Refusing to do so will be considered a federal crime.
EDIT: I thought SHIELD was a UN force not merely an American one. If they are how can the US dictate to them how they operate?

It was. Is it?

A Federal Crime? It'd have to be an international crime, to be SHIELD jurisdiction; if they're UN, not US.

See my other posts.

- Le Messor
"And even when you've changed it all condensed it, I'm against it!" - Groucho Marx in Horse Feathers

I'm merely quoting what Iron Man said. (Check the link) Which is why I'm questioning how the US is supposed to make, what i think is, an international UN force obey their federal laws outside their borders. Can anyone tell me what SHIELD's current status is? Is it an American or a UN force?

[Ben]

Can anyone tell me what SHIELD's current status is? Is it an American or a UN force?

I can't say for sure, but the entry on the marvel site states that it's still an international organization:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/S.H.I.E.L.D.

Ben

[Le Messor]

I'm merely quoting what Iron Man said. (Check the link)

Quoting.
Yes.

No, I knew that, I was agreeing with you. I knew that without checking the link--I have the issue.

- Le Messor
"And let's face it Sidney, your mother was no Sharon Stone." - Stu, Scream

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Anyone with powers... anyone in costume... any mutants... any of our kind is going to be required by law to reveal themselves to the United States government. In return the registered hero will be given a job as a guard in the new SHIELD Security Force. You will get to be a superhero, but you will have to answer to someone. Refusing to do so will be considered a federal crime.
Okay, see this pretty much illustrates why I'm on the side I'm on... its too broad, and too generalized. Once again as I just posted in a very long (at least it seemed long writing it) post in another thread, I believe this is IM's attempt to coordinate all these powers for a greater purpose... but forcing those born with a trait to enlist is definetely not the way to go about it... last time I checked, we chose the jobs we have in the world, not the government... mutants for one should not have to sign up for this ridiculous draft, and I might go so far as to call it an enslavement (although the term gives me hesitation because people will automatically bring to mind the plight of African American slavery, which I certainly do not mean to indicate... nevertheless, they would be slaves to the government.) This law very much makes it a crime to be born... also, what is to be said of those who have already been 'created' by accidents and not choice? This in my mind goes against the basic values of the American system, and is most probably the reason why Cap is against it. After all, even he was a volunteer, a subject to the government's experiments... I'd very much also like to see one of the lawyers (Dare or She-Hulk) take this as a case to the Supreme Court to see how in the nine hells Marvel would even dare to attempt to explain how this would pass the strict scrutiny test that the court would use.

I can't wait to see the poor schlub who tries to force Juggernaut to register. I wonder what happens if an ET like the Silver Surfer shows up? Do they need to get a special license to be on Earth?
Well, since Juggernaut is seemingly taking up permanent residence in England, I doubt that they'd even bother to try and cross international lines (perhaps an element of what has been hinted at with heroes taking safety across border lines), and in fact he is already semi-registered with the Brits as he is now essentially an agent of the government, seemingly working off his past crimes in a very suicide squad-esque manner. That actually brings me to the next point, that it seems that they will be actively seeking to strike down the heroes who refuse to obey this law, rather than aiming to do that instead to the villains who would also be breaking this law. That should be the first priority in my mind, which certainly has not been the indication thusfar. Also, if this does extend to ETs, they will have far outstretched their bounds, as such law should truly only be applicable to American citizens. In many ways I'm hoping that this mandatory registration backfires in their faces and Earth gets hell-of-a-smashed as a result of the depletion of all the powered heroes. That'd make me happy.

I also thought that SHIELD was now international, which makes me even edgier about the actual reasonable application of this law... I might be nitpicky, but I always appreciate it when comics delve into real-world issues that they actually remain accurate to what the issues truly are... also, I might have said this earlier (but in all my blabber I've lost track of what I've said), but what if a hero wants to retire after their 'duty' to SHIELD? Work until you're dead? Is that the new policy? Would they have a choice as to the foes that they would be working against? Would they have to work on seemingly suicide runs? Could they refuse an order if they felt it unethical without fear of a reprimand? Would the government be held responsible for the death of that hero? These are the things that bother me about all of this. I'm a stickler, but I think we need the details in order to understand the true nature of the scenario posed to us (at least in deciding who is going to pick what side...)

A Federal Crime? It'd have to be an international crime, to be SHIELD jurisdiction; if they're UN, not US.
Well, arguably (and this is a somewhat flawed argument/explanation), but it would be a federal crime to refuse the registration, but not to decline the 'offer' to work with SHIELD perhaps? The way its phrased it certainly seems that the "offer" is one they can't refuse (as in you register you're recruited), but perhaps they're just saying that if these heroes are going to function they need to do so under the jurisdiction of SHIELD, which would be completely acceptable even if it is an international body, because they would thus have to be answerable to the entire worldwide community rather than just the United States, and this intrusion into SHIELD hiring policies has arguably been done by the United States before in comics, and given the firepower that would be added to their arsenal, I doubt that many SHIELDies would have that much to say in opposition.