All New Offical Handbook of the Marvel Universe, A-Z

[SephirothsKiller]

I'll check out the respect thread, but remember, the Handbooks have to factor in things like consistency and hyperbole - e.g. Hercules was once seen pulling the entire island of Manhattan into place using two chains from his back. This has been written off as a case where the comic was showing Herc's boastful account exaggerating his own feat (apart from anything else, even if Herc were that strong, where's he going to find chains that won't break, and where would he anchor them?) If a character once in a blue moon performs a feat well above what they normally can do, it usually means its either an exaggerated account, or that its an exceptional case with other factors involved. Sasquatch normally can't stop a jumbo jet as it attempts to take off and throw it like a toy. Apart from anything else, no matter how strong Sasquatch is, the mass difference means he should have been lifted into the air by the plane; we've got to figure that's a combination of hyberbole for the sake of introducing him (writers and artists not thinking through just how strong you'd have to be to do that unaided), with possible external factors such as Shaman using storm force winds to back up Sasuqatch's efforts.

I agree with the Hercules examples, but Sasquatch doesn't have something to that extreme degree. Sasquatch does have various feats not just once in a blue moon that puts him over 70 tons. He has even caught a 6 story building from falling completly over, as well as dragged and lifted out of the water a fully equipped battle cruiser, Thing has admited Sasquatch was stronger (At that time Thing was class 80), and while Walter returned he mentioned the Box robot isn't half the strength of Sasquatch (At that time it was class 85). Then there's the fact Sasquatch can become an Elder God completly possessed by Tanaraq, even giving Talisman a challenge causing her to have a magical backlash. He is the personification of death on Earth when it was first commencing to come alive, and he and the other beasts control death and decay to use against mankind.
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Thanks again for taking the time for your reply, it's greatly appreicated and nice to have associates of Marvel coming and talking to us. It was informative and beneifical.

As always, Mungi is right. The battle cruiser especially is quite a good example, since it wasn't a spur of the moment thing, but something he did do the ship could be repaired. The "Box is not half as strong as Sasquatch" thing is pretty significant too.

Hmm... I'm worried about poor Sassy, soon they'll forget he has a healing factor and ability to withstand armour piercing machine gun fire.

P.S. When was it confirmed that it was indeed him in Howling Commando's? (Ugh).

I've noticed lots of people like to use Sasquatch, he's a fun character. If OF doesn't work out I say give him a solo try.

P.P.S. Want someone who hasn't justified his strength level? (IMHO) Iron Man. Level 100? Please.

[cmdrkoenig67]

[quote="SephirothsKiller"]
P.S. When was it confirmed that it was indeed him in Howling Commando's? (Ugh).

It was written that way in the HC series plain as day, even though some folks can't seem to see it...But it was again confirmed in the recent mMarvel Handbook series (in Sassy's entry)...I agree with you about the (Ugh) too (that series was just...Uh...Well....Ugh).

I've noticed lots of people like to use Sasquatch, he's a fun character. If OF doesn't work out I say give him a solo try.

That might be fun.

P.P.S. Want someone who hasn't justified his strength level? (IMHO) Iron Man. Level 100? Please.

LOL....you know it.

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

Hey...Does anyone know if there is any Alpha content in the new Handbook update that came out yesterday? I'll be buying it, but I was just curious if anybody knew already.

Dana

[Ben]

Hey...Does anyone know if there is any Alpha content in the new Handbook update that came out yesterday? I'll be buying it, but I was just curious if anybody knew already.

Dana

Puck, Hunter In The Darkness, and Contest Of Champions.


Ben

[Canucklehead]

Puck, Hunter In The Darkness, and Contest Of Champions.

Hmm, who's this Hunter In The Darkness? Never heard of him/her/it.

[Loki]

What did it say the latest status of Witchfire was? Did Yukon Jack end with him living with Snowbird?

Yukon Jack is indeed married to the temporal copy of Snowbird and ruling Kemetron

Ugh. I don't know about the rest of you, but I didn't consider the ending of the latest series as canon, especially since things seemed to jump ahead a little in time to explain everyone's whereabouts. Using temporal copies as canon makes the whole Alpha mess even more convoluted. And as for showing Mar with Namor, I doubt any writer is going to even acknowledge that as having occurred.

I'm afraid the ending of the last series does seem to be canon - we asked when we were writing the appropriate profiles whether to acknowledge that "flash forward" or not, and were told we should. However, as the Puck entry clarifies somewhat, it does appear that the temporal copies have vanished, whether back to their own timeline or absorbed into their current day counterparts or something, and that it was "our" Alphans who took on the Collective.

As for seeing Mar with Namor, the old Avenging Son has a bad track record for looking after kids left in his care - check out Sibyl, who Rom left with Namor. Never seen again. I guess he just tends to dump them in the royal creche and forgets about them.

[Loki]

Sorry sir your going to have to bear with me for the next couple days as my dog was put down and I'm in no mood for a debate right now. Sorry for the delay

I'm sorry to hear about that, and no need to apologise.

[Loki]

As I said, I wasn't the writer of this particular entry, but if its his fighting stat that you feel is too low, then I suspect its because in his last seen incarnation his animalistic side had been enhanced to the point where he wasn't capable of using any skilled fighting techniques.

His mind was not an animal, he was just like Sabertooth feral but still skilled. He wouldn't forget all of his traning as even when he was feral during Weapon X, it was Wild Child who beat Sunfire while Sabertooth got flash boiled.

Again, I didn't write the profile, and if you want to e-mail ohotmu@gmail.com with your explanations of why the rating is too low, I'll gladly present the evidence to the writing team. That said, I would still argue that while that feral, he may have still retained some of his fighting skills, just not all of them.

I'll check out the respect thread, but remember, the Handbooks have to factor in things like consistency and hyperbole - e.g. Hercules was once seen pulling the entire island of Manhattan into place using two chains from his back. This has been written off as a case where the comic was showing Herc's boastful account exaggerating his own feat (apart from anything else, even if Herc were that strong, where's he going to find chains that won't break, and where would he anchor them?) If a character once in a blue moon performs a feat well above what they normally can do, it usually means its either an exaggerated account, or that its an exceptional case with other factors involved. Sasquatch normally can't stop a jumbo jet as it attempts to take off and throw it like a toy. Apart from anything else, no matter how strong Sasquatch is, the mass difference means he should have been lifted into the air by the plane; we've got to figure that's a combination of hyberbole for the sake of introducing him (writers and artists not thinking through just how strong you'd have to be to do that unaided), with possible external factors such as Shaman using storm force winds to back up Sasuqatch's efforts.

I agree with the Hercules examples, but Sasquatch doesn't have something to that extreme degree. Sasquatch does have various feats not just once in a blue moon that puts him over 70 tons. He has even caught a 6 story building from falling completly over, as well as dragged and lifted out of the water a fully equipped battle cruiser, Thing has admited Sasquatch was stronger (At that time Thing was class 80), and while Walter returned he mentioned the Box robot isn't half the strength of Sasquatch (At that time it was class 85). Then there's the fact Sasquatch can become an Elder God completly possessed by Tanaraq, even giving Talisman a challenge causing her to have a magical backlash. He is the personification of death on Earth when it was first commencing to come alive, and he and the other beasts control death and decay to use against mankind.

You make some good points, and again I'll happily take them to the team for further discussion. On some of the specific points though:

I would argue that Walter saying the Box robot wasn't half as strong as Sasquatch isn't a very scientific estimate (e.g. it does support him being stronger than Box, but not twice as strong).

Dragging and partially lifting an end of a battle cruiser doesn't mean he can lift the full weight of that cruiser - guys taking part in the world's strongest man competitions pull vehicles weighing over a ton, but there's no way they could lift them.

How powerful Sasquatch is when Tanaraq is in charge doesn't reflect how powerful he is when Walter is in charge.
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Thanks again for taking the time for your reply, it's greatly appreicated and nice to have associates of Marvel coming and talking to us. It was informative and beneifical.

No problem. Happy to discuss things.

[Loki]

Again, it was something we all presumed it was just the writer at the time declared it was the actual Sasquatch rather than Walt, although as stated that hasn't become the case.

The handbook writers also asked at that time; intially we were told it wasn't Walt (which made sense, as he isn't THE sasquatch of legend, plus why would SHIELD have taken him prisoner?), but we were subsequently told it was Walt after all.

Sometimes things change.

[Loki]

Puck, Hunter In The Darkness, and Contest Of Champions.

Hmm, who's this Hunter In The Darkness? Never heard of him/her/it.

A creature which lived in the Canadian wilderness, which ran into Wolverine and Alpha a few times. For the (somewhat convoluted) full version, you need to buy the Handbook.

[-K-M-]

Again, I didn't write the profile, and if you want to e-mail ohotmu@gmail.com with your explanations of why the rating is too low, I'll gladly present the evidence to the writing team. That said, I would still argue that while that feral, he may have still retained some of his fighting skills, just not all of them.

Hmmm...I just might email them actually. Should I provide the scans depicting Wild Child? they will most likely know what I'm talking about. Well even as Wildheart he tapped into his feral state and still beat the highly skilled Flagstone that was trained by Puck. Even Wolverine who goes into his feral state is still said to be very skilled in his animalistic form. So sure he might have lost some of his tranining, but not that low.

You make some good points, and again I'll happily take them to the team for further discussion. On some of the specific points though:

I would argue that Walter saying the Box robot wasn't half as strong as Sasquatch isn't a very scientific estimate (e.g. it does support him being stronger than Box, but not twice as strong).

Dragging and partially lifting an end of a battle cruiser doesn't mean he can lift the full weight of that cruiser - guys taking part in the world's strongest man competitions pull vehicles weighing over a ton, but there's no way they could lift them.

How powerful Sasquatch is when Tanaraq is in charge doesn't reflect how powerful he is when Walter is in charge.

Well I have no idea what Sasquatch true limit of strength is, that was just an example of how his class 70 ranking does not equal to what has been shown and stated.

I never implied he could lift the whole thing, but how effortesly he did it shows he has vastly higher strength. He even went toe to toe with Savage Hulk for over 30 minutes and he didn't even want to fight for most of it since he felt guilty. He held the destroyed up long enough for Guardian to even repair the front end and then pushed it back out. That's impressive.

Well technically it somewhat does, as stated the more anger or pain Sasquatch experiences Tanaraq slowly begins to take control. He's just like the Hulk.

[Loki]

Again, I didn't write the profile, and if you want to e-mail ohotmu@gmail.com with your explanations of why the rating is too low, I'll gladly present the evidence to the writing team. That said, I would still argue that while that feral, he may have still retained some of his fighting skills, just not all of them.

Hmmm...I just might email them actually. Should I provide the scans depicting Wild Child? they will most likely know what I'm talking about. Well even as Wildheart he tapped into his feral state and still beat the highly skilled Flagstone that was trained by Puck. Even Wolverine who goes into his feral state is still said to be very skilled in his animalistic form. So sure he might have lost some of his tranining, but not that low.

Providing scans would help, but isn't vital. Tapping in to your feral side isn't the same as being dominated by it; there's bound to be a loss of skills to go with the loss of control. But as you say, some loss doesn't automatically equate to a total loss, so you might be able to argue for a higher level than the handbook gave.

You make some good points, and again I'll happily take them to the team for further discussion. On some of the specific points though:

I would argue that Walter saying the Box robot wasn't half as strong as Sasquatch isn't a very scientific estimate (e.g. it does support him being stronger than Box, but not twice as strong).

Dragging and partially lifting an end of a battle cruiser doesn't mean he can lift the full weight of that cruiser - guys taking part in the world's strongest man competitions pull vehicles weighing over a ton, but there's no way they could lift them.

How powerful Sasquatch is when Tanaraq is in charge doesn't reflect how powerful he is when Walter is in charge.

Well I have no idea what Sasquatch true limit of strength is, that was just an example of how his class 70 ranking does not equal to what has been shown and stated.

I never implied he could lift the whole thing, but how effortesly he did it shows he has vastly higher strength. He even went toe to toe with Savage Hulk for over 30 minutes and he didn't even want to fight for most of it since he felt guilty. He held the destroyed up long enough for Guardian to even repair the front end and then pushed it back out. That's impressive.

Well technically it somewhat does, as stated the more anger or pain Sasquatch experiences Tanaraq slowly begins to take control. He's just like the Hulk.

Sorry, I should have made it clearer, I do agree that Sasquatch should probably be higher than 70 tons. I just wanted to note that the feats you listed aren't conclusive proof of a specific level.

[-K-M-]

Providing scans would help, but isn't vital. Tapping in to your feral side isn't the same as being dominated by it; there's bound to be a loss of skills to go with the loss of control. But as you say, some loss doesn't automatically equate to a total loss, so you might be able to argue for a higher level than the handbook gave.

Shoot, I just sent the email without the scans. Indeed I made comment about that in the email, sure he wouldn't remember it all but 3/7 is pretty low. Also Wildheart was losting control to his feral side, which ultimately led into the horrible depiction of him in X-Factor. It's funny 2 years ago I knew nothing about Alpha Flight and now I try to get as much information on all the members

Sorry, I should have made it clearer, I do agree that Sasquatch should probably be higher than 70 tons. I just wanted to note that the feats you listed aren't conclusive proof of a specific level.

Oh yeah definetly, even I have no idea what his "true" strength limit. I guess it all depends on the next writer who wishes to utilize him. I just wanted to object his 70 tons rankings which doesn't make much sense. Even Super Skrull was shocked by his might "and realized with bone-chilling certainty that his full strength (Super Skrull) may not be sufficient".
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Thanks again for taking the time to reply back, it's greatly appreicated.

[-K-M-]

Puck, Hunter In The Darkness, and Contest Of Champions.
Ben

I can honestly say I have never heard of Hunter in the Darkness. What issues does he/she appear in. I'll be getting the handbook hopefully this weekend if I have time along with the rest of my issues.

[Phil]

Again, it was something we all presumed it was just the writer at the time declared it was the actual Sasquatch rather than Walt, although as stated that hasn't become the case.

The handbook writers also asked at that time; intially we were told it wasn't Walt (which made sense, as he isn't THE sasquatch of legend, plus why would SHIELD have taken him prisoner?), but we were subsequently told it was Walt after all.

Sometimes things change.

Not knocking yourselves at all.
I understand the business.