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Thread: Upcoming Puck Appearance

  1. #46

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    Okay....Issue #92 of Vol. 1 states that the biochip implant was created by Roxxon(which is probably how Delphine found the future members of Omega Flight...if they have/had biochips). It is also revealed in that issue that Mac finds out that the chip can be used for "biofunction sensory systems manipulation", Which really makes me wonder why on earth Mac would consider working for Roxxon in issue #6 of Vol. 1...if he knows they're a dirty company.

    Uncanny X-men issue #120 seems to indicates that all the original members of AF can be "called" by biochips...I've yet to find anything to indicate that Snowbird does not have a biochip. I wasn't sure, but I had thought I had read something about it in AF, Vol 1. I must be wrong about her.

    Dana
    ALPHA FLIGHT IS RESURRECTED, LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67
    Okay....Issue #92 of Vol. 1 [....]

    Dana
    issue #92 vol 1, you said it... just forget about it, they where doing crap at that time...
    Quand l'appétit va, tout va!
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  3. #48
    The Old Fan Alpha Flight
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    Default I don't have #92, but I will get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67
    Okay....Issue #92 of Vol. 1 states that the biochip implant was created by Roxxon(which is probably how Delphine found the future members of Omega Flight...if they have/had biochips). It is also revealed in that issue that Mac finds out that the chip can be used for "biofunction sensory systems manipulation", Which really makes me wonder why on earth Mac would consider working for Roxxon in issue #6 of Vol. 1...if he knows they're a dirty company.

    Uncanny X-men issue #120 seems to indicates that all the original members of AF can be "called" by biochips...I've yet to find anything to indicate that Snowbird does not have a biochip. I wasn't sure, but I had thought I had read something about it in AF, Vol 1. I must be wrong about her.

    Dana
    You're not wrong about Snowbird and Shaman. I'm at the library, not at home, but I will verify it when I get back home. Neither Michael nor Narya needed the signal that Heather used to summon Alpha Flight and it was stated in AFV1# 1.

    It would make sense, too. If James knew better than to have a locator/influencer implant put into an alien, he probably had the good sense not to try to put one in a demi-goddess. A shape-shifting demi-goddess. As for Michael, this would have been an appropriate time when his former prideful self reared its head: who would he let operate on him? No one.
    Once upon a time, they exploded from the pages of The X-Men. For a moment, they were "Canada's answer to The Avengers."

    They were ALPHA FLIGHT....

    ...once upon a time.

  4. #49
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    Snowbird -never- had a chip. Not in her head, not on her shoulder, not with fish. (I'm not sure about that last one.)
    I can't remember the #, but she did say so--and it ties in to #12: "I must not bleed!" How can you operate on somebody when making them bleed causes... Something. Except in #6.

    I seem to remember Sas's actually going off some time, a ping behind his ear. Or was that Puck?

    It's occurred to me that there's a surprisingly small number of Alphans with the chip.

    - Le Messor
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  5. #50

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    Puck, Sasquatch(in his original body), Northstar and Aurora all had the chip, right? Marrina had her necklace. Did Mac have one?

    Dana
    ALPHA FLIGHT IS RESURRECTED, LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!

  6. #51

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    The most prominent mention of the chip implants can be found in Marvel Fanfare #28, published Sep 1986:

    On p19, Aurora asks Heather, "Why didn't every member receive an implant, Vindicator?

    Snowbird answers, "In my case it was impossible! As a half-breed child of the gods, I cannot be allowed to bleed!"

    Heather explains further, "Marinna's [sic] amulet served the same purpose as the implant! Shaman had mystical senses that alerted him in times of need! I became a member later, like Box!"

    Alpha Flight uses Northstar's chip implant to track him during the story, but bizarrely, he doesn't seem to know that he even has one. In the 1st panel of p20, he thinks to himself in a thought bubble, "Alpha [Flight] obviously has some means of tracking me!"

    Northstar must have figured it out at some point because at the end of the issue, he arranges with his doctors to have his implant removed.

    So the list of recipients of the original Dept H microchip implant is:

    Mac (probably not)
    Heather NO
    Shaman NO
    Snowbird NO
    Sasquatch YES
    Aurora YES
    Northstar YES (removed)
    Puck YES
    Marrina NO
    + anyone else after that NO

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  7. #52
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    Default I'm glad a Mantlo example was used...

    ...instead of just relying on "the Byrne version."

    AFV1# 1, page 27, panel 2 - {John Byrne, writer credited}

    James' thought balloon: "And...yes, that's Snowbird in the midst of that swirling black cloud. I'm not sure how she got here, but she definitely looks like she needs help..."

    same issue, page 37, panel 1 -

    Michael's word balloon: "Anne's right. She and I sensed this menace--she as Snowbird--without Heather's emergency signal. But alone we could not have defeated Tundra."

    So Northstar had doctors who removed the locator/influencer implant. Yet, Northstar said that Scramble was the only doctor who could help him when he got "sick," even though Scramble's cures were suspect, at best. I wonder why Jean-Paul didn't even consider these other doctors?

    The folks who are having a hard time accepting Scott Lobdell's volume three version of Alpha Flight now know how some of us older AF fans feel about having to accept The Mantlo version of the group. You don't like it, it completely ignores what Seagle did, and you don't want it to be a part of AF continuity.

    Don't know if this will put it into perspective, but here is something Bill Mantlo wrote in AF# 66, page 7, panel 4 -

    Whitman Knapp's word balloon: "Not that it matters. Now, I've realized a profound truth--and it seems as though all the good times, all the bad times--never really happened! It made an interesting story, but that's all."
    Once upon a time, they exploded from the pages of The X-Men. For a moment, they were "Canada's answer to The Avengers."

    They were ALPHA FLIGHT....

    ...once upon a time.

  8. #53

    Default Re: I'm glad a Mantlo example was used...

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan
    The folks who are having a hard time accepting Scott Lobdell's volume three version of Alpha Flight now know how some of us older AF fans feel about having to accept The Mantlo version of the group. You don't like it, it completely ignores what Seagle did, and you don't want it to be a part of AF continuity.

    Don't know if this will put it into perspective, but here is something Bill Mantlo wrote in AF# 66, page 7, panel 4 -

    Whitman Knapp's word balloon: "Not that it matters. Now, I've realized a profound truth--and it seems as though all the good times, all the bad times--never really happened! It made an interesting story, but that's all."
    That's a brilliant quote, and the reference to Knapp is from an issue where, ostensibly, the Dreamqueen makes Knapp realise that he's a fictitious character in a comic. A bit of postmodernist angst from Mantlo.

    I was a long time fan of AF from the Byrne days and it was crushing to see Mantlo slowly dismantle the team that Byrne had built and which fans loved. Thank goodness for selective memory!

  9. #54

    Default Re: I'm glad a Mantlo example was used...

    Quote Originally Posted by sengsterooney
    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan
    The folks who are having a hard time accepting Scott Lobdell's volume three version of Alpha Flight now know how some of us older AF fans feel about having to accept The Mantlo version of the group. You don't like it, it completely ignores what Seagle did, and you don't want it to be a part of AF continuity.

    Don't know if this will put it into perspective, but here is something Bill Mantlo wrote in AF# 66, page 7, panel 4 -

    Whitman Knapp's word balloon: "Not that it matters. Now, I've realized a profound truth--and it seems as though all the good times, all the bad times--never really happened! It made an interesting story, but that's all."
    That's a brilliant quote, and the reference to Knapp is from an issue where, ostensibly, the Dreamqueen makes Knapp realise that he's a fictitious character in a comic. A bit of postmodernist angst from Mantlo.

    I was a long time fan of AF from the Byrne days and it was crushing to see Mantlo slowly dismantle the team that Byrne had built and which fans loved. Thank goodness for selective memory!
    I hear you, Sengsterooney...Selective memory is a beautiful thing(especially when a writer chooses to ignore history's worst moments...i.e. other writer's flubs and really bad story ideas).

    Dana

    P.S. Thanks for posting that, Garry.
    ALPHA FLIGHT IS RESURRECTED, LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!

  10. #55
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    Default Re: I'm glad a Mantlo example was used...

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan
    ... now know how some of us older AF fans feel about having to accept The Mantlo version of the group. You don't like it, it completely ignores what Seagle did, and you don't want it to be a part of AF continuity.
    Actually, that's kind of how I feel about what Seagle did as well...


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  11. #56

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    From memory, the chips were originally only given to members graduated to Alpha, as a signal device. Heather knew Puck and Marrina had the signal devices because their cards were trimmed gold for Alpha. The more sinister applications came later, particulatly FANFARE #28.
    It is possible that the members seen in AF Special DO have the chips: Stitch, Sean Benard, and Smart Alec (who is now dead, so does it matter?)
    Shaman and Snowbird could sense when they were needed; Mac would have had a signalling device in his tech suit.
    Auropra and Puck would be the only remaining member who definitely have the chip. Sasquatch may no longer have it because his body that contained the chip was destroyed in AF #24.

    Back to the start of the thread...isn't it very real-world likely that someone gaining powers through mutation or other means might have emotional and psychological problems adjusting to the powers, and perhaps, if self-responsible to some extent, might check themselves into an institution to learn how to cope?

    Puck checks himself in, later volunteers for Dept. H/Alpha, mentions the guy he met at the institution who could manipulate metal/non-organic matter. At the same time group sessions, Boches also learned of Jeffries' abilities, tho they never discussed them. Boshes himself probably ranted about what the doctors told him, to Jeffries. In his earliest appearances, Madison was a man of few words, so he probably had not discussed his powers with Boches. Puck would have known of Jeffries as a potential AF recruit, leading Mac to Jeffries. He found Boshes instead, who was by that point coping with the loss of his legs by building a robot able to provide him locomotion. Mac takes Boshes in, but Boshes never makes Alpha BECAUSE od his adjustment problems to the loss of his legs. Mac didn't intentionally recruit from the looney bins, but that was where he found two members from the referral of one member. Make sense?

    Aurora's MPD was so complete as to be nearly undetectable, so Mac probably did not learn of that problem until after she was Alpha.

    EVERYONE had personality flaws and problems, and Mac walked some very thin wires to form a team that could handle what it had to. Let's not forget that homosexuality was once listed in DSM as a psychological "problem" so a team formed earlier would have excluded him too. Sasquatch is essentially a competitive bully...heroic? there. None of these characters were perfect people, except for Mac, which is why he does seem to bore a lot of readers.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kozzi24
    From memory, the chips were originally only given to members graduated to Alpha, as a signal device. Heather knew Puck and Marrina had the signal devices because their cards were trimmed gold for Alpha. The more sinister applications came later, particularly FANFARE #28.
    It is possible that the members seen in AF Special DO have the chips: Stitch, Sean Benard, and Smart Alec (who is now dead, so does it matter?)
    [It could. In the AF Special, which is pretty good, something caused Smart Alec to have difficulty thinking. Maybe he froze up or maybe something else was going on? My guess is a combination of the two] Shaman and Snowbird could sense when they were needed; Mac would have had a signalling device in his tech suit. [This makes sense, too.]
    Aurora and Puck would be the only remaining member who definitely have the chip. Sasquatch may no longer have it because his body that contained the chip was destroyed in AF #24.

    ...isn't it very real-world likely that someone gaining powers through mutation or other means might have emotional and psychological problems adjusting to the powers, and perhaps, if self-responsible to some extent, might check themselves into an institution to learn how to cope?

    Why can't we just say that Mantlo wrote them his way, other writers wrote them their way, and we try not to do for the creators/editors/publisher what they themselves didn't bother much with: figuring a plausible way to incorporate the differing versions. I think MARVEL expects the fans to try and pull all of this stuff together, but I don't think they spend much time making the Mantlo version fit with the Byrne version, the Seagle version, or the Lobdell version. I'd bet they'd like a version that sold really, really well, though. I'd really like to have an Earth-Mantlo and dump all that continuity there, be done with it, and never regard it again.

    Aurora's MPD was so complete as to be nearly undetectable, so Mac probably did not learn of that problem until after she was Alpha. [I agree 100%]

    EVERYONE had personality flaws and problems, and Mac walked some very thin wires to form a team that could handle what it had to....None of these characters were perfect people, except for Mac, which is why he does seem to bore a lot of readers.
    Mac's compromises and desperation are what make him not such a perfect person, IMO, and when it's not taken to an implausible extreme it also makes him not boring.
    Once upon a time, they exploded from the pages of The X-Men. For a moment, they were "Canada's answer to The Avengers."

    They were ALPHA FLIGHT....

    ...once upon a time.

  13. #58
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    [quote="Garry/Al-Fan"]
    Quote Originally Posted by kozzi24
    Aurora's MPD was so complete as to be nearly undetectable, so Mac probably did not learn of that problem until after she was Alpha. [I agree 100%]
    This was actually said in an issue--a Byrne issue, no less. About #2, or so, I think.

    I imagine Mac would not have a chip of any sort. Why would he? In theory (tho' Heather proved this wrong later, I believe it was still the theory behind the chips), he's the one who'll be doing the signalling. I doubt they'd expect him to signal himself.

    - Le Messor
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  14. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor
    I imagine Mac would not have a chip of any sort.
    What, is Mac on a low-sodium or fat-free diet? I admit I rarely have chips but now and again they do me fine. BBQ, Salt and Vinegar, All-Dressed,...
    Keep your stick on the ice.

    Live it.

  15. #60

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    [It could. In the AF Special, which is pretty good, something caused Smart Alec to have difficulty thinking. Maybe he froze up or maybe something else was going on? My guess is a combination of the two]
    My taker on Smart Alec was that no matter how smart he was, he thought he was even smarter...and thus better than the "roughnecks and brawlers" on his team. I think he just froze up. Being smart does not necessarily prepare you or lend you the capacity to deal with emotional issues. Pitched battle such as Alec found himself in would certainly qualify as an emotional issue. I think he froze, with no other conditions or variables.

    I will always look to rectify latest issues with history. Revisionism on a title such as Alpha that has had such drastic changes and different incarnation will almost always be necessary. My belief is that it is best to keep as much as possible.

    And so funny you mention that recursive story. If it had not been Bill Mantlo's last issue of Alpha Flight, it would have been MY last issue of Alpha Flight.
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