Raymonde Belmonde a pedophile?

[DB]

"Northstar and Aurora visit an old friend of Northstar's, Raymonde Belmonde. When Aurora leaves the two of them alone briefly, Belmonde comments to Northstar, "So you didn't tell her all about me." A little later, we meet Belmonde's long-lost daughter, and Northstar is extremely surprised that he would have a child. In the next issue, the narration tells us: "Much more than a friend, Raymonde Belmonde taught a young Jean-Paul Beaubier not to be afraid of his mutant power...or any other thing."

??

[Le Messor]

Raymond clearly knew that N'star was gay, and was so himself.
What it doesn't mean, tho', is that they ever had sex. With each other.
If they did, we don't know how old N'star was at the time.

None of this discounts the possibility (tho' I think N'star would have been willing - it'd be statutory rape more than molestation). But let's not leap to conclusions here.

- Mik
"My wife and I haven't had sex for two years. I have a 6 month old daughter."
"You're just being suspicious. This job'll do that to you."
- Loaded Weapon 1

[ladymako71]

what the Aussie said. It's nothing to even speculate over in my opinion. JP could very well have been surprised about a daughter because Raymonde never mentioned one? Besides, about the 'much more then a friend' JP could very well have looked up tot he guy as a father of sorts. It's comic books and I doubt that Marvel would have the cajones to even go that route. =p

[HappyCanuck]

Agreed with Mik and Jo: I took that to mean more as a mentor of sorts, not his lover (tho I'm not ignoring the possibilities)

[seroquel]

what's age of consent in QC? 14? Though it ain't cool to have sex with people who are in your care ( abuse of power, etc.)

i never felt the inference was sex, but mentorship. but, who can say. it was probably that way (intentionally vague) so John B could try to rile people up more. he seems to have liked to do that.

[syvalois]

First I would just like to say that in french Raymonde is a women's name and I know he is gay but that's definitely not an excuse to called him by a women'ds name. So, like Mik did, let call him Raymond (1 letter missing that DO makes a lot of difference).

The age of consent in Québec is 14 and specified 2 other categories : under 18 and 18 years old and more. The law say that if both lovers are in the same age category, the law as nothing to say (except rape, of course). If one lover is not in the same category, everyone can complaint.

But I agree with everyone, I like to see Raymond as a mentor and nothing more because I find that if Raymond was JP's lover, it would cheapen the role model he was for JP and put some questions of morality in our society, no? Mentors and lovers don't go well together, it can been seen as an abuse of autority. And I don't like the feeling it get mixing homosexuality with that. It give the wrong message, I think.

But then again, look at Céline Dion and René Angelil? I think it's creepy, but it's me. It's even more creepier when you know what happened to the other famous young female singer in Québec. She got sexually abused by here manager. It was the same link than between Céline and Angelil. Makes you wonder...

[kozzi24]

Let's look at it from another angle. Marvel time moves differently in the present and how far back a story was. We're more complicated by a reference to the past in a story so old.
Keep in mind that Jeanne-Marie was already a teacher in UXM #120, so the twins had to be at least 24/25 in that appearance for Aurora to have gotten acredited education.
Raymond taught JP not to be afraid of his mutant power.
We know that when JP started using the power, it was in skiing. It's a reasonable auumption that Raymond guided JP into the skiing as a way of exploiting his power.
JP was an Olympic competitor. Do Olympic competitors need to be at least 18 years of age? How often do Olympic competitors get right into the games at 18, instead of 19 or 20 or so?
If we assumed his Olympic year was at his age of 20, that gives Raymond 2 years to have mentored/loved him without being a pedophile.

Furman seemed to me to have made a mistake from memory...Clementine in her first appearance was working under the cover of a circus, and in the NS LS, Furman established that NS spent some time in a circus. He was an orphan.
Let's assume he was a ward of someone who worked with the circus. Being a mutant with pointy ears makes this more likely. The circus atmosphere certainly could have fostered some of that "fear" of his mutant power. When he turned 18 and was no longer legally the ward of the circus or someone in it, he met Raymond and remained in Quebec.

Make sense?

[syvalois]

Make sense?

Let just say that JP's past is a mess. I just don't know if you're theory is valide. From I don't know where, I think the Northstar miniserie, Raymond seems to have met Jp when JP was 12 years old.

And where would you put his FLQ years? with the circus? I don't think he spent a lot of time with the circus anyway, imo. And you don't need to be 18 to go to the olympics, look at the gymnastic events, it gor more to do with the sport and how the sports age pic level is.

Never the less, it's if Raymond was JP's lover, he was also and still his father figure and I don'T like mixing those two aspects.

[Le Messor]

Kids as young as 14, maybe 12 compete in the Olympics.

I always thought that the FLQ stuff happened while JP was with Raymond. But I can't back that up.

- Le Messor
"She asked me why the singer's name was Alice,
I said, 'Listen, baby, you wouldn't understand'."
- Alice Cooper, Be My Lover

[JohnnyCanuck]

But then again, look at Céline Dion and René Angelil? I think it's creepy.

I agree . Celine Dion is very creepy. *SHUDDERING*


J CANUCK

[kozzi24]

JP's past isn't as much of a mess as it is undefined.
I thought Furman really convoluted things by giving Northstar a past with the circus. I always thought it was his faulty memory...he thought JP had been with a circus because Clementine was working within a circus when she was introduced circa AF 22. The "circus background" is the only thing that didn't fit. But once established, at best it can be ignored. Otherwise much of the Limited Series is invalidated.
I figure it something like this:
He was orphaned (again) at about 6?
Assume foster care for a few years. He ran off from a foster home to join the circus. Or, he was placed in foster care with a circus troupe as an "appropriate" place for a pointy-eared child. Let's not assume that all social workers are upright people...there's a reason most shrinks have shrinks! And if JP had not been selected for adoption because of his ears, the case worker was actually achieving something, just not a normal something.
He met Belmonde while with the circus. You can take a lot off Belmonde's "lechery" by assuming that JP left the circus because he liked Belmonde, and that this was at a later age. If we stretch the assumptions, Northstar left the legal guardianship of the circus at age 18 to be with Belmonde.
Northstar used his powers to achieve skiing success, so there is not real lengthy training time for him be an Olympic-level contender.
Belmonde would have taught Northstar acceptance of his sexuality and his powers, thus being friend father and more.
I'm sure some of the other board regulars can chime in here, right or wrong: Aren't cross-generation relationships more common among gay men than they are among hetero couples?
Gay or straight, most cross-generation relationships end when the younger person outgrows the older one, so such an (again, sorry, assumed) end to the deeper relationship maintains JP's continued friendship with Belmonde.

[HappyCanuck]

I'm sure some of the other board regulars can chime in here, right or wrong: Aren't cross-generation relationships more common among gay men than they are among hetero couples?

I can only speak from my own experiences (both as a homosexual male, as well as a student of humanity), Kozzi, but, nine times out of ten, that's the case. The best analogy I can think of is a form of 'apprenticeship' (okay, those of you who dislike this analogy can shudder now, but read the rest of the message first). A young man realises what he is, and also realises that none around him (especially those like me, with no strong tie to the gay 'community') understand enough about him to help him. Then comes an older person who knows and understands what he's going through, and helps the young man figure out about him. More cases than not, tho, for the young man (and, sometimes, the teacher), the boundary between 'teacher/student' and 'lover' gets skewed, and they mistake the affection for something different. Having been the 'teacher' in that sort of circumstance before, I know this ALL too well.

Gay or straight, most cross-generation relationships end when the younger person outgrows the older one, so such an (again, sorry, assumed) end to the deeper relationship maintains JP's continued friendship with Belmonde.

Again, from my experiences, this is true in many cases. Using my original analogy, it's a case of the student matching or surpassing the teacher, whereby there are no more 'lessons' to be learned, thus no further need for 'tutilage', tho the bond of respect is still there immencely.