What if the original Major Maple Leaf had formed Alpha Flight?
What if the original Major Maple Leaf had formed Alpha Flight?
What if AF were published with the respect it deserves?
Originally Posted by HappyCanuck
the rationale is to exposite an alternate history line, one where one thing went drastically different and see where that history leads. This specific scenario is to exposite a scenario of what would the world be like if Alpha Flight had never existed to do all the good they had done. Who would take up the mantel of taking on the Great Beasts in AF.1.1 and 1.24? Without Shaman, who would give Elizabeth the Talisman so that she could fulfil her destiny, and take on Llan? Who would stand up to the Master as he abducted Marrina (remember, in UXM 120, Marrina and Puck were still with Beta Flight, thus not on the mission)? THAT'S what I'm suggesting.
Oh.
I'd be interested in checking that out, just like yesterday.
Then why are you paying attention to this thread?!because I've never much liked the concept of "What If?,"
BecauseJust because I don't particularly like the concept of "What If?" doesn't mean I'm not interested in some premises. This one is intriquing, I just didn't understand the rationale behind it. The only way I know how to better understand something that I don't understand is to ask questions and/or pick it apart 'til it makes some sense (to me). If this makes me a bad guy, I guess I'm a bad guy. I would have inquired no matter who posted this particular premise because I find it interesting. If it were published, I would consider buying/reading it. Not so the gutting of Northstar and turning him into a zombie [a plot-twist that may be reversed/I do like ALPHA FLIGHT
negated even as the death-issue comes out; am I wrong to think that the short-lived shock-value-only killing is pointless?].
I also tagged/included my "What if?" premise. I still stand by it, now more than ever.
It means altering the past (preferably to coinside with a) natural history and b) cannonical history within the series - tho many writers throw out the second one out the window at their whim) to introduce new, unrevealed information about a character...I don't know what "retconning" means
Thanks for explaining. Now, I have a better understanding.
I do have an interest in "retconning" ALPHA FLIGHT, though I don't hold out much hope that MARVEL will let me do it. My interest in ALPHA FLIGHT is not limited to retconning the original characters, however.
But more important than that, the first volume went 129 issues, the second went 20 issues, and the third went 12 issues. The sustainability of an ALPHA FLIGHT series continues to dwindle, and I'd like to know why. As dogmatic as it may seem, I'd like to know why---whether originals, replacements, volume two newcomers, or volume three new characters, why doesn't the popularity and support (and/or content of the stories) keep an AF series afloat?
I don't know the answer to that, but I'd like to.
Garry/Al-Fan
Re: What if AF were published with the respect it deserves?
I think the reason is: AF is constantly portrayed as "third-rate Avengers". Even the most minor villains are a match for them despite how powerful the team is. Rarely are they seen outside of their own book (hell, not even in their own book come to think of it) as being competent, and when they do get to take part in major crossovers they're only used as cannon fodder and never make any substantial contribution to the story. In short they get no respect by the writers and who wants to read about heroes who no one (not even Marvel) respects?
PS: There were 130 issues in V1.
Re: What if AF were published with the respect it deserves?
Thanks for the correction. That tells how much I was paying attention to the first volume towards the end.
I agree with everything stated. Any time a lone character like the Auctioneer can give a group of superheroes a run for their money, something's wrong.
Could it also be that ALPHA FLIGHT's popularity is not quite as deep as it once was?
The next AF writer/artist/editor face long odds to make a successful run. Will working on a new ALPHA FLIGHT series be career-enhancing or career-diminishing for either an up-and-coming star or a seasoned professional? Who will take the risk of another AF cancellation, or will just having the assignment be enough? Again, I don't know, but hope for the best.
Re: What if AF were published with the respect it deserves?
I think a lot of casual readers have given up on AF over the years, but there is a hardcore... uh... core fan base, which would be us.
Any title has the chance to be good or bad, it all depends on the direction the creative team takes and just how creative that team is! ANADAF could have been really good, just look at the Justice League series its style was based on. At its height it had three titles going and even now a humourous JL series is being published.
It's the creative team that makes or breaks a comic, not the other way 'round. With that being said though, AF has (from the rumours I've heard) been considered something of a pariah at Marvel. So hopefully someone (like our own Ed, perhaps) who has the talent and vision will take up the creative duties on V4 and turn it into a kickass book!
"What if Alpha Flight assasinated Charles Xavier?"
Think about it. Instead of being sent to retrieve Wolvie all the way back in X-Men #120-121 the team is actually sent to assasinate Xavier in response for recruiting Wolverine to his new squad of mutants. They succeed and AF goes on to become the X-Men's most hated enemy.
Ooooh, good one!
What If...Alpha Flight Had Defeated Onslaught
Onslaught is still forming, he's just whupped Juggernaut and wants to test his abilities before tackling the X-Men/Avengers/Fantastic Four - so he heads north, where AF defeat him (with Box over-riding Sentinals, Shaman freeing Xavier and Sasquatch cracking the Onslaught armour)!
So Says Scarlettspiderg! And yes that is my letter (GP) in ANAD AF 12.
'What If Witchfire had usurped Belasco as ruler of Limbo'. Could lead to re-depictions of the 'Magik' limited and the whole Goblyn Queen saga.
Del
Driftwood: Well, I got about a foot and a half. Now, it says, uh, "The party of the second part shall be known in this contract as the party of the second part."
Fiorello: Well, I don't know about that...
Driftwood: Now what's the matter?
Fiorello: I no like-a the second party, either.
Driftwood: Well, you should've come to the first party. We didn't get home 'til around four in the morning... I was blind for three days!
This is interesting, too!
I like it, I'd buy it, I'd read it.Ooooh, good one!
FULLer DISCLOSURE: I've become one of those casual readers, 'though I haven't given up on AF. Will support it where it makes sense to me, when I know about it [I didn't find out about vol. 3 until #4 was out and I just happened to go to a comic book store], and if money will allow. As you can tell, I don't have every single issue or appearance of AF [I think I have most of the X-Men/AF specials, which are pretty good], and probably would in order to be realistically considered for a "retcon" of AF. Just using the Byrne/Mantlo issues wouldn't be right.
I hope the definitive ALPHA FLIGHT will be published, though.
NOTE TO DOUG: I forgot that Weapon Alpha got to the United States via a S.H.I.E.L.D. transport way back in UXM # 109. ALPHA FLIGHT does have ties to S.H.I.E.L.D. that go way back. My bad.
Re: What if AF were published with the respect it deserves?
All it would take is for someone like Brian Vaughan or Grant Morrison to say they were interested in the characters and wanted to do a series. Obviously that's not happening, but if a talented, superstar writer were on the book, great things could happen. It's not the characters or concept that are bad; it's the stories.
unfortunately, that's what happened last time, and look at what we got [le sigh]
Allan 'HappyCanuck' Crocker
"Hey... Philosophers love wisdom, not mankind."
- Stephen Pastis, Pearls Before Swine
No offense intended to Scott Lobdell, but he's no Vaughan or Morrison.
The characters chosen do matter. That has been proven by the last two rosters. With only one or two originals the title is doomed for failure. But more importantly I think the stories matter. No one will argue that when Alpha Flight was at it's hieght the stories were solid, characterization was solid, and art was solid. Now move forward to the end of V1, all of V2, and all of V3. Do you honestly remember the details of these stories and character like you remember early Alpha Flight? Not a chance. The stories aren't character driven anymore. They've been hijacked by writers who want to put their product on paper. New characters that few care about, ridiculous stories about wax dummies, or poor art (Duncan Roleau V2 before anyone jumps me on Clayton Henry's art). There have been good stories since Byrne. In fact that's why V1 made it to #130, but they were sporadic and only enough to sustain the book. There hasn't been a solid base for the last two incarnations. That has to be built first. Good writing can make a marginal character worth reading. Look at what Tieri did with Jefferies, Wildchild, and Aurora. They were core characters in his book that did have success. You don't see those names show up on most folks Alpha Flight rosters nowadays. So, they aren't the most popular Alphans, yet they have seen success and probably have their own new fans now. So pick the roster you want. I think it has to include a majority of originals on the core team to keep the old timers around this time. Throw in a couple newbies if needed, but make sure the stories are gripping. A 6 story arc about taking a carton of eggs into space doesn't exactly thrill the average reader. Follow that up with wax dummies and you're detinied for cancellation every time. Too bad to, because issues 9 and 10 seemed to be turning on the right course. Then the ending was just rushed. Better luck next time I guess.
I was overly hasty when I said it was only the stories that matter. I don't believe that at all. Characterization matters a great deal to me.
I suggest though that if people don't care about the characters, it's not so much because they're new, but because they're not written very well or engagingly.
For the record, I love the original team and am tired of their getting bumped out of their own book for newbies. I want to read a book about the original characters too. I just don't think that's the only formula for a successful Alpha Flight comic.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
