The Suit: Heather or Mac?

[varo]

major heroes.

that list doesn't even come close to qualifying.

[kozzi24]

I kind of cringe at the thought of someone else in the suit, for clairty's sake.
Shaman then Talisman then Shaman as Talisman with Elizabeth powerless, then each independent again...
Walt/Sasquatch, Tanaraq Sasquatch, then Snowbird as a white Tanaraq, Walt/Box, then Wanda/Sasquatch, then back to Walt/Sasquatch, then V2's Bigfoot Sasquatch...
Bochs Box, Jaxxon Box, Walt Box, Bochs Box again, Jeffries Box...
Nemisis 1, Nemesis 2, Nemesis combined (more of a stretch here, as I think there was some bad writing involved)...
Weapon Alpha, Vindicator, Guardian, Heather suitless, Heather Vindicator, Heather Guardian, joined by a Mac Vindicator then Anti-guard, then Mac as Guardian & Heather as Vindicator, then Heather as volcanic Vindicator and "baby Mac", then add one Mac (while the writer intended Mac to be disguised as Gentry), Heather suitless, then Heather back as Volcanic Vindicator...
IT'S CONVOLUTED ENOUGH WITHOUT PUTTING SOMEONE ELSE IN THE SUIT!
And that;s without even counting the number of superflous characters that have been created in the Alpha titles. Statistics by number of indicivdually published issues, Alpha Flight is probably the per capita most crowded title of all time...and that's including all of the Avengers' Elements of Doom villains individually.
Even worse--and nearly my sole criticism of Furman--his later Omega Flight were horribly derivitive of other characters who had appeared in the title previously.

[kozzi24]

Ok, I just got around to read everything on that subject. Ouf! Guys? Do you have a life to write that much? Alarm! Alarm! very profond and intelligent discussion here that can help future writer to understand characters!!!

1. When the TV never goes on, free time becomes much more productive
2. Shame on those future writers for not reviewing the source material for themselves!

[kozzi24]

major heroes.

that list doesn't even come close to qualifying.

Thunderbird and Ferro Lad were?
Marvelwise, the only major character that the company tried to kill and keep dead was Tony Stark, and that was retroed out pretty quick, even though while the "Teen Tony" was being written, his presence as a second chance was played with rather well in the impact on other characters, especially Hawkeye.
Thunderstrike did headline Thor, then had his own book for a couple of years.
Swordsman, yeah, kinda lame effort there.
All three others were significant enough of characters that they are still mentioned and depicted and sometimes, for good or bad, still developed or tinkered with to this day.

[Northcott]

To the challenge of naming "three major heroes and/or headliners":

Bucky
Gwen Stacy
Swordsman
Thunderstrike
Uncle Ben

Bucky -- while only a sidekick he was a headliner. I'll give you that one.

The Swordsman, however, not only fails to qualify as a major hero or headliner, but he was also brought back to life some time ago. He was running around hale and hearty as of Busiek's post "Heroes Return" reboot of the Avengers.

But how do you qualify Gwen Stacy and Uncle Ben as major heroes and/or a headliner?

You've got me on Thunderstrike. I've no idea who that is. What book does he/she serve as the headline character in? I'd like to flatter myself and say that if they were one of the MU's major heroes I might know who they are, but...

... hold on a tick. Might've just clued in. Are you referring to the Thor knock-off? The mortal man who served as a stand-in for awhile?

[HappyCanuck]

Sooo, basically what you are saying, Jeff, is, instead of convoluting the story more (which, I'll admit, IS a bit convoluted) by throwing someone else in the suit, is either to put one of the two original users (I forget who's your prime candidate), or just tossing it in a cosmic dumpter somewhere, and streamline the title a bit more. Not saying I can't disagree.

I also can't disagree with what you've added. There are a LOT of characters in AF - and that's ignoring the villians and the plethora of connections they have through out the rest of the Marvel universe! Many of those characters are bad carbon copies of each other, but at the same time - especially the Core 10 (the six originals, Puck, Marrina, Heather and Talisman - all whom I count as 'original') - are so well-written and well-developed (as I said, esp by Byrne - which is ironic, since he thinks they are 'two-dimensional') it's hard to ADD to them without overbearing them. Mysterious characters (ie: Puck) are good in that sence, since you can add all you want (within reason) without seriously FUBARing the character (tho many have tried and this is where plausible retconning comes into play).

Okay, I HAD more, but for the life of me can't figure out where I was going with this, so without resorting to babbling, I'm gonna leave it here...

[kozzi24]

Thunderstrike the Thor knowck off, yes. His solo series was actually pretty decent storytelling!
However...the current Swordsman is NOT a resurrected original. That one's still dead. Busiek's Swordsman was paired with the character Magdalene...both were brought from an alternate earth at the same time the Vision was restored to his red appearance during Bob Harras' tenure as Avengers writer.

[Northcott]

Whoops! Looks like my answer came late. The message board is busy tonight.

We need lives.

[HappyCanuck]

Bucky -- while only a sidekick he was a headliner. I'll give you that one.

No qualms there.

The Swordsman, however, not only fails to qualify as a major hero or headliner, but he was also brought back to life some time ago. He was running around hale and hearty as of Busiek's post "Heroes Return" reboot of the Avengers.

ACtually that was Swordsman II... but I thought he went off into godknowswhere with Mantis... anywho, Swordsman I DID die.

You've got me on Thunderstrike. I've no idea who that is. What book does he/she serve as the headline character in? I'd like to flatter myself and say that if they were one of the MU's major heroes I might know who they are, but...

Thunderstrike was Eric Masterson, the human who replaced Thor for a while, and, when Thor returned, was given a special mace that had similar properties as Mjilnor, as a gift, so that Eric could continue his work on Earth, since Thor was SUPPOSED to stay in Asgard and get back to doing the Crown Prince duties he'd been ignoring for the last century or so. Thunderstrike spun off a new title under the same name. However, shortly into his new carreer, T-Strike was killed. At one time, both Thor and Thunderstrike were Avengers.

... hold on a tick. Might've just clued in. Are you referring to the Thor knock-off? The mortal man who served as a stand-in for awhile?

... Didn't I just say that? Man, I gotta learn to READ THE POSTS BEFORE ANSWERING... oi...

[Northcott]

Thunderstrike the Thor knowck off, yes. His solo series was actually pretty decent storytelling!
However...the current Swordsman is NOT a resurrected original. That one's still dead. Busiek's Swordsman was paired with the character Magdalene...both were brought from an alternate earth at the same time the Vision was restored to his red appearance during Bob Harras' tenure as Avengers writer.

Oh, c'mon! If they'd chosen to bring Mac back by dragging an alternate earth version over, you know you'd still count it as a ressurection.

[HappyCanuck]

WILL YOU GUYS POST MORE SLOWLY!! It's hard to keep up! I've repeated three times what was not posted while I was updating!

(NOTE: this is all said with a laugh in my voice.)

[Northcott]

Before I forget again...

About Thunderstrike. He was a headliner, I've got to give him that, but he wasn't a major hero. He was a replacement -- a carbon copy. A fill-in. As good as the stories and/or characterization may have been, he falls squarely into the "expendable" category, just like every Captain America who wasn't Steve Rogers, and every Superman that wasn't Clark Kent.

Create a "fill-in" character for a retired big gun, and that character's just begging to be retired in a nasty way.

[kozzi24]

I don't remember the details, but there were major differences in the histories of the two Swordsmen. The story was an alternate version of Black Knight going through the multiverse trying to kill every alternate version of Sersi or something. Decent story overall, in my opinion a very underrated run of Avengers

[cmdrkoenig67]

I kind of cringe at the thought of someone else in the suit, for clairty's sake.
IT'S CONVOLUTED ENOUGH WITHOUT PUTTING SOMEONE ELSE IN THE SUIT!

You know it, brother.

Alpha Flight is probably the per capita most crowded title of all time.

Time to kill some characters...Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!

Dana

[Mokole]

Or give them new roles outside of AF. "Persuasion and the Omegans". When Paranormals get fed up, Persuasion picks them up.