How about....

[Legerd]

...But I do agree that, for the Flight to be useful not only in the protection racket () but in the general safety department, they'd have to incorporate aspects of their larger supposed archetypes, the Avengers and the X-Men - namely in protection (maybe even using their large character base to form regionalised teams, say an East/West division, so to be able to cover a larger area more quickly - remember, Canada IS the second largest country in landmass! - and if they kept using the Arctic Plodex ship as a main base, it'd even things out, considering the rough location its in)...

Here's where Lobdell's idea of an 'Uncanny' AF would make sense. Maybe have three books; East Coast Alpha, West Coast Alpha and Central Alpha. Veterans could be spread out amongst the teams and there would be plenty of room for old, unused characters as well as new ones to go instead of into limbo. Of course we'll be lucky to get one book.

[HappyCanuck]

Here's where Lobdell's idea of an 'Uncanny' AF would make sense. Maybe have three books; East Coast Alpha, West Coast Alpha and Central Alpha. Veterans could be spread out amongst the teams and there would be plenty of room for old, unused characters as well as new ones to go instead of into limbo. Of course we'll be lucky to get one book.

No that wouldn't work. remember what happened with the Avengers when they split up like that? Yeah. We could just keep it like they did with Beta Flight in the original series: you had your core team doing whatever they do, and the Beta team getting into trouble. Except in this case, you take the E team, show what they are doing/facing, and the W team and what THEY are doing/facing, all in one issue, sort of what they had been doing in Avengers a few years ago. SOmetime the E team or the W team takes centre stage, sometimes it's a solo book, just like everything else. BUT you don't have seventeen titles to keep track of.

[Barnacle13]

No that wouldn't work. remember what happened with the Avengers when they split up like that?

Didn't they run for like 102 issues with West Coast Avengers? That's a better run than anything Alpha has put up since Volume 1. And I actually cared about the second tier team that WCA was comprised of. I can't imagine anyone missing Mockingbird is WCA hadn't happened. Could breathe life into some second tier Alpha characters and give some of the newer fans more of what they want.

[HappyCanuck]

Didn't they run for like 102 issues with West Coast Avengers?

Now take that 102 issues, and compare them to the 500+ for Avengers. That's partially my point. The other part is that, as effective as a two-book series sounds, it's not. I can count on one hand how many time there were interactions between the two teams - not including roster trades. There was no unifying agent between the books; you might as well named one team 'Fred' and the other 'George' instead of Avengers East and Avengers West, because they were two different teams. At least when the X-Men did the Blue/Gold split circa X-Men #1, you could still tell they were the same team, because there was regular interactions between the teams, starting with XM#1. But I'm going off topic here: doing a two tiered team - a good idea - in two different books - a not so good idea - would be disasterous, especially if one book flopped while the other took off. Having both teams in the book, ala Alpha Flight and Beta (Gamma) Flight during the Infinity War/Omega Flight debacle in AF#1.110 (except with more understanding and less grand-standing [Windshear] with the trainees) makes more sence. Even if they did what the new Justice League cartoon does (albeit with significantly less ppl involved), and choose specific people for specific missions based of histories and abilities (this is a good way to use those lesser seen characters more fruitfully). Of course, this doesn't stop them from training those in need, one of their primary goals, as it was in the beginning.

[Barnacle13]

I'm not arguing that it would be better in one book. Alpha doesn't have enough weight at this point to carry two books. I just wanted to point out that if a second book could run for 102 issues it wasn't exactly a flop. Plus as I pointed out it did make the reader care a little more for the likes of Tigra, War Machine, etc. I don't think that happens if they just pop in every once in a blue moon.

[Legerd]

I did consider the Avengers and I did remember that the second book died, but like B13 said the book did last until #102. Plus it gave a lot of (I'm not sure if this is the right word) underused characters a chance to be seen and build a fan base.

You yourself said HC, it would make sense to have a second team based in the Plodex ship (yeah, I know you said nothing about a second book) due to Canada's sheer size. Logically Alpha Flight would have multiple teams to cover all of the country. Personally I can't stand how crowded team books get when there is just one team, imagine trying to pack two teams into one book! If they selected certain heroes due to their skills/powers depending on the threat, as you said, then it could work as a single comic but would ignore the reason for having multiple teams in the first place. As well, IMO, the book would quickly get too messy trying to maintain storylines for so many characters with the alternative being to let some of them drift off into limbo.

The whole problem is that Marvel's Canada has one single super group to protect it while the US has about 95% of the world's heroes to guard it. Ah well, it doesn't matter anyway, there's no chance of a second book of Canadian heroes would ever be written. Maybe if we start a Marvel North or something?

[Le Messor]

Selecting individual heroes per issue would echo real well with Byrne's run. Remember when he did one character at a time, with occasional full-team issues? I liked that, a unique answer to the team-book thing.

US has 95% of the superheroes? Don't you mean New York City?
Then again, it also has 95% of the world's gun-nuts, and much greater crime because of it. cf: 'Bowling for Columbine'.
If Moore was right about it (and he was mistaken, about a great. Many. Thingsss.), Canada would need only about 10% of the protection.

(Of course, the -real- reason Columbine doesn't happen in other countries is this: It does, Americans just don't hear about it.)

- Le Messor
"Caution: I drive like you do."
- bumper sticker

[Mokole]

Basically half of my ideas have them working out of the Plodex base, Flight School, after SHIELD fight with Dept. H. I just feel a new writer would go back to Dept. H for the Hudsons.

[Legerd]

Selecting individual heroes per issue would echo real well with Byrne's run. Remember when he did one character at a time, with occasional full-team issues? I liked that, a unique answer to the team-book thing.

That was one of the things I didn't like about Byrne's stuff. Sure the occaisional solo adventure is great but I'd rather see the team act more as a team. Books like the FF and Avengers have run for so long in part, because the characters work together on regular basis.

[kozzi24]

I think part of the reason Byrne's approach worked was because of the personalities involved. Read as a whole, you clearly saw the team reforming, not just as working associates, but as friends with their own mini-political alliances within the team. He caught a lot of flak for that back then, but the appraoch worked, in part because it gave him time to develop those one dimensional X-Men throwaway characters with depth and detail.
West Coast Avengers was at time, the superior book to Avengers, and often had more core Avengers in it. The approach was supposed to be different, a "West Coast" feel rather than an East Coast feel, more relaxed, to put it most simply.
And don't forget, Avengers West was cancelled forr a reboot to Force Works, not because of low sales. Force Works, I think, got caught in both the general 90's glut and the Heroes Reborn BS.

[HappyCanuck]

(Of course, the -real- reason Columbine doesn't happen in other countries is this: It does, Americans just don't hear about it.)

Exactly, Mik. There were six reported school shootings in Canada (that I remember, at least) the week of the Columbine shooting, one not too far from where I lived, in YK.

[Mokole]

And don't forget, Avengers West was cancelled forr a reboot to Force Works, not because of low sales. Force Works, I think, got caught in both the general 90's glut and the Heroes Reborn BS.

True. A lot of OK to good books get cancelled or rebooted for no good reason (you think Marvel would've learned their lesson when they had a winner with Thunderbolts, retooled it and lost tens of thousands of dollars a month). AF version #1 was doing fine when it got cancelled, AF v2 was selling over 30000 when it got cancelled.

Yet we get to see crip like Excalibur, which Marvel is losing money on (I read they lost a combined 30¢ an issue on Excalibur and X-Force in November when promotional costs for these two books were factored in to their huge sales drops), X-Force, and all those pointless Cosmic Capers (Thanos, Silver Surfer, Guardians, ....). Sure, some people say they like Captain Marvel but in general nobody cares for these Cosmic books and they die horrible deaths. Just like She-Hulk will once they get tired of promoting it and losing more money.

Count on it: Alpha Flight these days would sell over 40,000 per month with an artist like Henry, a writer like Furman, and a core of 4 Byrne characters with 2-3 of the rest, like Box, Zuzha, and Nemesis.

Happy New Year! Alpha Flight in 2005, make it so!!

[syvalois]

Selecting individual heroes per issue would echo real well with Byrne's run. Remember when he did one character at a time, with occasional full-team issues? I liked that, a unique answer to the team-book thing.

That was one of the things I didn't like about Byrne's stuff. Sure the occaisional solo adventure is great but I'd rather see the team act more as a team. Books like the FF and Avengers have run for so long in part, because the characters work together on regular basis.

I just loved the Byrne issue format, the occasionnal team story with a lot of solo adventure. I thought it was a metaphore to Canada that was fitting. A bunch of individuals that have not much in common, but sometimes when they come together, they can do great things. It's also very good to show the different aspect of Canada. And most of all, it gave a very distinct and uniqe feeling to the book that do not and cannot be mixed up with Avengers wannabe.

As the Wikipédia encyclopedia say :"Canadians see their country as a mosaic of unique immigrant cultures, a large picture made up of many distinct pieces, rather than a melting-pot."