Power of the Twins

[seroquel]

i don't mean to be a science geek, but what is strength? define it with physical parameters.
the strength behind the screen door? do you mean the momentum
as p= mv? which enable said screen door to chop off cat's head. we have a couple of things we can take into account. the speed (or velocity) of the screen door, the mass of the screen door. the acceleration of the screen door. the force of gravity. friction. this is the sum of its forces. this is all its got. so what is the difference between chopping your cat and not? i would go with velocity. you whip the screen door hoping to inflict injury (barring stupid gismo which makes door close slowly), or you open and close it like a normal person. the rest are relatively fixed on a day to day basis. which brings me back nicely to my other point, which is getting punched by one of the twins would jack you up. high velocity equals ow.
mass is a factor but i don't think that shakes out to density. (area of impact isn't negligible but punching is punching and i don't think we want to nit pick about force/area) anybody who goes boating at clippy speeds can attest that a mosquito (which is probably not particularly dense) can hurt sting like a mofo.

i don't want to pee on anyone's cheerios but if we are going to argue imaginary beings let's do it properly! not really. i just get awfully excited about this stuff. seriously this is what i thought about in physics two the whole time, how does this parlay into comic physics?

hmm... and i wonder why i have landed a killer job in science yet......

[Le Messor]

we have a couple of things we can take into account. the speed (or velocity) of the screen door, the mass of the screen door. the acceleration of the screen door. the force of gravity. friction.
hmm... and i wonder why i have landed a killer job in science yet......

Well, that was my point. There's a lot more to it than speed.
Oh, and I wasn't trying to hurt my cat.

Have, or haven't landed that job?

- Le Messor
"Splat."

[seroquel]

haven't in science but have landed other suitable job (yay!) to bide my time until i go to *shudder* grad school. (vomit noise).

yeah there is somewhat more that velocity but not so much more, there are x many things that are factored in, period.

no i doubted you were trying to kibosh your cat/pet/creature but it worked nicely.

random side bar to powers (but still on topic) is when did the twins "psychic link" show up? as in an issue? the headlok issue is the first mention of it i can think of but was it there before. they seemed mutually depressed alot but i am assuming it wasn't much in effect in early issues or jm would have figured jp was a little hot for walt.

[HappyCanuck]

random side bar to powers (but still on topic) is when did the twins "psychic link" show up? as in an issue? the headlok issue is the first mention of it i can think of but was it there before. they seemed mutually depressed alot but i am assuming it wasn't much in effect in early issues or jm would have figured jp was a little hot for walt.

To my knowledge, the incident with Headlok in AF 1.104 is the only solid meantion of a link between the two, however this could be explained through the so-called metaphysical link between twins that's witnessed in the real world.

[kozzi24]

I dismissed the "hot for Walt" because the salvation in #24 would not have worked without "one who hates him." Maybe he liked having the eye candy around so to speak, but personality wise, Northstar really did hate Walt.

The link between the twins can be inferred through their powers in earlier issues: Northstar's powers were effected by Walt's change to Aurora, and he glowed on his own in #50. He restored her powers circa #85.

[Northcott]

The molecular displacement is one fan's theory, and shouldn't be taken as canon unless it's ever put into the comic.

Did I miss a reference to molecular displacement, or are you making reference to molecular direction? If the latter, it was published by Marvel. I didn't just haul the term out of the blue. Ramblings on the possible workings and applications of such an ability were mine, though.

[HappyCanuck]

I dismissed the "hot for Walt" because the salvation in #24 would not have worked without "one who hates him." Maybe he liked having the eye candy around so to speak, but personality wise, Northstar really did hate Walt.

I don't think JP hated Walt, only Aurora's infatuation with him. To JP (and most of the world who'd've heard of MPD), JM was mentally ill, and Walt was either taking advantage of it, or was weak to repel the Aurora personality's come-ons. If Aurora had turned her attention to, say, Michael, I believe that Jean-Paul would have shown a dislike for him too. The fact that Jean-Paul may (or may not) have been attacted to Walt too could have compounded the issue.

[seroquel]

there is no salvation of walt in issue 24. the whole think was just a trick by somon (or whatever his name is). walt was saved because michael realized the energy there was walt.
the whole one who loves, one who hates, and a powerful one was all just a trick to lure them someplace where they could be attacked.

[Sir John A.]

Um..... Shocked Okay, anyone else who a pet named after an Alpha Flight character, raise your hands...

My cat is named "Logan" does that count?

[kozzi24]

there is no salvation of walt in issue 24. the whole think was just a trick by somon (or whatever his name is). walt was saved because michael realized the energy there was walt.
the whole one who loves, one who hates, and a powerful one was all just a trick to lure them someplace where they could be attacked.

I figure Somon must have detected JP's hatred of Walt...and while his sister's infatuation CERTAINLY fed that, I don't think it started or ended there. How many times would a homosexual have been physically or socially attacked by bullying football jocks like Walt back in high school? I figure JP probably hates the type.
As a trickster, Somon would have known better than to include "One who hates" even in a trick, because he would want the trick to work? Could he have blindly used such a trick in the HOPE that one of the six or so people that came to the (literally) end of the earth to save Walt would have hated him?
The evidence that I remember for JP's attraction to Walt was in 2 places (both by Mantlo).
#30 or so, where Northstar says to a crying Aurora that he loved him too. My explain-away is that JP is just not big enough of a jerk to say to his crying sister, "he really was a this-and-that, so you're better off." He showed compassion and empathy, things that aren't defining traits but that he does possess.
#48 or so, when JP says he preferred Wanda as the man he was. My explain-away is those words don't mean he liked Walt or even liked Wanda, it just means that he's a gay guy who would prefer having a fit man to look at rather than a fit woman.
The relationship between JP & Walt has not been explored much by anyone since. They were chummy during Scott Lobdell's brief first run, but that was also circa #106 where JP was adopting and caring for a dying baby. By #116 or so, JP warns Walt away from his sister again.
I look at them as 2 guys who work together, and I'm sure all of us have experience in working with people we can't stand. End of the day, the job still has to be done.

[Le Messor]

Or maybe JP hated Walt because he loved him? He wanted him, knew he was straight - and dating his sister - and became jealous. He loved his sister deeply (which makes Kozzi's answer very likely, too - she was the one he saved all his compassion for, that early) so he'd turn the anger and hate against Walt instead.

As for hating (football) jocks, JP is himself a jock, and therefore likely to neither hate all jocks, nor be picked on by them, not in the intense bullying build-a-grudge-and-buy-a-gun type way.

- Le Messor
Before shooting himself, Kevin Phillips left a note outside his Kansas home saying “Dead body inside”. Another note in the kitchen, next to a pot of coffee, read “Police - help yourselves”.

[HappyCanuck]

Or maybe JP hated Walt because he loved him? He wanted him, knew he was straight - and dating his sister - and became jealous. He loved his sister deeply (which makes Kozzi's answer very likely, too - she was the one he saved all his compassion for, that early) so he'd turn the anger and hate against Walt instead.

That ties in well with my theory on it, so I won't argue with it.

As for hating (football) jocks, JP is himself a jock, and therefore likely to neither hate all jocks, nor be picked on by them, not in the intense bullying build-a-grudge-and-buy-a-gun type way.

Here's where I argue: Skiing and football are two completely different types of 'jocks'. No, I don't believe it was ever specified that he hatee all jocks (once again those nasty generalisations strike again), but that doesn't mean that, simply because JP was a jock himself in one form, that he wouldn't have issues with other jocks, such as football players, boxers/wrestlers, or any other sport form that require more strength and durability than agility and speed. Skiing builds different muscles than football, thus, in this case (assuming he was bullied based on his lithe size, instead of the fact that he's an a*****e), he'd still could have been bullied.

In school, I had a friend who could be considered a jock - he played competitive tennis, which has similar mass-building skills as skiing - and he was constantly being bullied (as was I, but I wasn't a jock by any stretch of the imagination) by several of the more 'macho' jocks (ie: hockey and soccer players) due to the fact that his sport was 'girlie'. They'd taunt him for every aspect of that stigma, from the general beating him up, to forcing him into women's clothing to humiliate him. It got so bad that he did take a gun - not against his attackers, but to his temple. I myself, having been bait for bullies, and I know I've been tempted to do the same, so I don't blame him, tho I do wish he'd found another way out (I had art, he had tennis, which made it worse, since that's why he was being bullied).

Analogously, had JP not his arrogance (which, in the context of how this thread is going, I can see how he'd build that up), there is a SIGNIFICANT chance that he'd've done just that: taken a gun or other such weapon to his bullies. And if his primary attackers had been Anglophones, well, that's a couple steps closer to becoming an FLQ terrorist! (the fact that he couldn't go through with it could be explained that he's just too moral for that kind of violence. Often, when badgered and beaten people are forced with a situation where they can enact some destructive vengeance, their morality will usually win out, and will spare their provokers or whomever they associate with their torture.)

[seroquel]

i always sort of see JP as a scrapper. I am sure he got crap but i am also sure he would dish it and fight back when needed. also as happy canuck pointed out he thinks far to much of himself to let stupid people get the better of him. that and i am sure he had a very unusual adolescence between a professional skiing career, circus life, terrorism, and homelessness. it probably didn't leave a lot of time for a conventional high school education

also i have to say i totally agree with le messor on the cause of dislike for walter. JP seems like a character that sort of turns alot of feelings that are not useful or helpful to him (like being attracted to your estranged sisters bf) into ones that could be in a way like anger and a desire to better himself.

(that was a very bummery example there, v. sad)

[kozzi24]

So there is someone else who questions whether he really did finish high school?

[seroquel]

oh yeah totally. if he went to high school it couldn't have been in a very normal way.
additionally he is supposed to be a good businessman, is he just full of business acumen or did he some how go to college and then get an MBA ?
(i think it could have happened, i mean if you could study really really fast college would be a snap, and especially if you made a deal with prof to just take the exams, which does happen)