Power of the Twins

[seroquel]

yeah i have some serious bones with the mantlo issues for that reason. heather and box always save the day. everybody else was too weak or too dumb except heather and madison. aiya!

i guess though most comics suffer from super character sydrome, as if they forget why they were a team in the first place.

also i fail to see how the twins can't have some sort of enhanced senses/ reactions or they would never be able to do anything at super speeds. they would smash into something and die.
my final complaint about their powers is how they (writers) are always saying they are punching at normal strenghts but super speeds. how does that work? the difference between throwing a bullet and shooting a bullet is the speed behind it! a punch that was moving even at hundreds of feet a second would be extremely devastating! to the head or the chest most undoubtedly fatal.
i love comics but seriously haven't most sci fi writers even taken basic science! its a bit hard to make up decent pseudo science without any grasp of the actual. my 2 cents anyway...

[kozzi24]

I agree with you, ser. Best practical science I can apply to their reactions and still keep with Byrne as near-Gospel is that their reflex act in direct proportion to the speed they are utilizing. IE if they were standing still and talking to someone, and someone else came up to them and punched them in the side of the head, they'd be going down because their reaction speed wouldn't have been enhanced. But their reaction time increases with their metabolism when they use their speed powers. IE if the guy coming to punch them did so while they were jogging in place at 2 mph, they could easily duck and return fistfire. If they're jogging in place at 200 mph, they'd see the guy soming and winding up and they'de be hitting first. They can be taken by surprise and can only reaction as an enhanced human when they are using enhancement.
Basically, their reaction times have to be enhanced, otherwise they would be flying, see a plane, and be smeared red across the first class windows before they could avoid a collision.
As to the rest...Some writers just need the lesson in having fists to the head....

[Phil]

As to the rest...Some writers just need the lesson in having fists to the head....

Because threats and violence solve evvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvverything.

[seroquel]

no violence solves nothing but... some very upclose and personal physics experiments could greatly increase the plausiblity of hooey science in comics!

[kozzi24]

As to the rest...Some writers just need the lesson in having fists to the head....

Because threats and violence solve evvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvverything.

Some people just don't understand American "humour"

[Phil]

Exactly... hence why some people don't find Scott's writing funny....

[HappyCanuck]

Exactly... hence why some people don't find Scott's writing funny....

Lucky for me (and not so much for some others on this list) that I LIKE cheap, crappy humour like what Scott has produced -- in moderation, naturally. So far -- IMHO -- Scott has not gone overboard (yet). He does good by keeping the gags to one or two per issues, with only a limited exposure on running gags (the 'floating head' gag for example, was only meantioned twice in iss #6).

To me, the crappy humour (American or not) fits with my sence of humour (which, admittedly, is more towards the 'dry' side), so it appeals to me.

And that concludes my two cents worth... for another shpiel, please insert two cents at the sound of the beep.

BEEP!

[Le Messor]

They just slow down a bit to make up for their lack of reflexes.
It's why they couldn't speed through the Master's lair in #4, and why Northstar got hit by the base - while travelling at superspeeds.

It is a worry, but out in the open, travelling a mile above the surface, the odds of hitting anything are really small.

- Le Messor
"Be realistic: Plan for a miracle"

[Northcott]

My take on the twins was always that they had enhanced reflexes, but not proportionate to their speed. Not so much that it would necessarily register as a super-power (like the Flash, who can see bullets moving through the air like slow-floating dust motes), but their reaction time (when focused) would be far superior to a normal human.

In addition, their power was described in terms of being "molecular direction" -- so they simply willed themselves in a direction, and their molecular structure followed.

The effects of this could be seen as working in the following ways:
1) providing limited physical protection while in motion: the protection would be less than the actual motion involved, so they are not really "invulnerable", but do become resistant to harm to a certain degree. Because temperature variations are based on shifts in molecular speed, it stands to reason that, having control over that element of themselves, they would be highly resistant to temperature changes.

This effect would be enhanced while they are in motion, and probably even provides them with some physical protection while in motion (again, through forced ordering of their molecular structure). This explains why Northstar could be smacked in the head by a high-velocity metal pole, while he was moving at remarkable speeds, and not splatter like a melon. It also explains why his fist doesn't explode when he punches Sasquatch at high speeds.

2) Reflex limitations: it was shown early on that the twins were capable of running at increased speed, as well as punching rapidly. This would be impossible were it not for some level of enhanced reflexes, due to the recall nature of muscles. The ability to retract and chamber a leg swiftly is a large part of the reason for an Olympic sprinter's speed.

Presuming that the twins do, in fact, possess limited enhanced reflexes, it would make it possible for them to run at remarkable speeds (though they would fly much faster -- which was presented as the case), and throw stunningly fast flurries of punches. In the latter case, however, they could not throw full speed punches, as they do not have the reflexes to allow for it: they can actually fly faster than they could punch. So their punches are devestating and swift, but not as terrible a force as they could be.

3) Electro-magnetic spectrum, TOE, and the twins
Einstien's Unified Field Theory was expanded to become "the Theory of Everything" (TOE) some years back. The original supposition that electricity, magnetism, and gravity were all possessed of related energy fields, and that manipulation of one could affect the others, has been expanded into a physics theory that, if solved and confirmed, could quite literally describe the workings of all things. (Now think about Guardian's battle-suit and how bloody amazing that thing is when viewed in this light!)

The twins can disrupt Guardian's force-field, which suggests that they have an energy signature to their flight. In some sci-fi way, their speed is tied into the TOE (I love saying that). This is further displayed by their ability to produce light when touching.

All of this points at some potential weaknesses, however: electricity being a big one. It's tempting to say that, because they seem resistant to cold (and perhaps heat?) and because their powers may have an electro-magnetic correspondence, that they are in some way resistant to electricity. Our computers are run off the same, however, but even the slightest static shock or feedback can fry a system's circuts. My hunch is, that given the nature of the twins' powers, that they would be susceptible to energies from the same spectrum from which they draw their powers.


As an aside: the way I remembered it, JP was faster, while JM could fly for longer. It's a theme that Byrne continued to repeat, based upon athletic performance: women traditionally do better in long-term endurance events, while men tend to do better in anaerobic (strength and speed) events.

And I had thought that the reason that the twins didn't tempt full speed in an atmosphere was not merely because of the damage they'd cause around them, but of the damage to themselves: that while theoretically their speed was limitless, their bodies might not be able to handle the strain.


Overall, I took a shine to the twins because they were speedsters with limits. They were a unique take on that character type, even without their considerable personalities factored in.

[Le Messor]

As an aside, the speed of a punch does affect its strength, but isn't the only factor. Example: Imagine being hit by a lead ball, 20cm2, at 100 kmh. It'd hurt a lot, hunh? Then imagine being hit at he same speed by a bran muffin. I wouldn't be too worried about that one.

Or, imagine the Hulk hitting a brick wall at 20kmh. Bye, bye, wall.

Imagine Northstar hitting the same wall at 2000kmh. Hey, where'd the wall go? Oh, wait, the Hulk smashed it down... Wait, I'll hit it -before- he does...

Doctor! Doctor! Could you find my hand? Here, you'll need this mop...

- Le Messor
"Be sure to treat your assumptions as though they are reality."

[HappyCanuck]

As an aside, the speed of a punch does affect its strength, but isn't the only factor. Example: Imagine being hit by a lead ball, 20cm2, at 100 kmh. It'd hurt a lot, hunh? Then imagine being hit at he same speed by a bran muffin. I wouldn't be too worried about that one.

Or, imagine the Hulk hitting a brick wall at 20kmh. Bye, bye, wall.

Imagine Northstar hitting the same wall at 2000kmh. Hey, where'd the wall go? Oh, wait, the Hulk smashed it down... Wait, I'll hit it -before- he does...

Doctor! Doctor! Could you find my hand? Here, you'll need this mop...

- Le Messor
"Be sure to treat your assumptions as though they are reality."

LOL, that's what's been missing around here: Your unique and descriptive sence of humour!! Glad to have you back on board, mate!

[seroquel]

mass of an object will always be taken into play (though i see the humor in your example, don't want people to think i am humorless).
but yes even a crunky old bran muffin will hurt badly if lobbed at high speeds. i mean look at a paint ball. weighs like nothing yet shot at 400 f/s hurts ALOT when it collides with your melon. anyone who likes paintball can share that. or bird shot. ouch!

i would really like to see some writer touch on the whole EMF factor with the twins though. it is much more interesting than just flying around quickly (though i like that too). well to me. that and i want comeupance upon vindicator for always being the day saver cause she could blow stuff up.



quote for the day "homer simpson is cock of nothing!"- Monty Burns

[Northcott]

There's also point of impact and relative density to be taken into account.

A bullet may weigh very little, but it's made of relatively dense matter, and specifically formed to have a very small point of impact: the sharp knife/dull knife dichotomy.

A human fist not only has a relatively large point of impact (spreading out the force of the blow more), but in comparison it's made of relatively soft materials.

It's why I'm figuring that the Twins' powers, based on molecular direction originally, must incorporate some kind of progressive damage resistance with it. 1) Since their molecules are, in that state, obeying their whim and moving as a unified force, it might stand to reason that they would be harder to damage. 2) We have some evidence in this, in the number of times that the twins survived collisions at speeds that would have turned a normal human into a case of "clean 'em up with a spatula".

[Le Messor]

Mass, and speed, are both important, but there's also the question of the strength behind it. The other day I closed my screen door pretty quick, but I wasn't sure if Goblyn was all the way through it - but, though the door has the mass to guillotine a cat, and the speed should've strengthened it, I did it so loosely - with so little strength behind it - that if he had been in it, the door would've stopped harmlessly.

Which is why I gave the Hulk example - I was thinking of his strength more than his mass.

The molecular displacement is one fan's theory, and shouldn't be taken as canon unless it's ever put into the comic.

- Le Messor
"Before borrowing money from a friend, decide which you need more."

[HappyCanuck]

... but I wasn't sure if Goblyn was all the way through it...
- Le Messor
"Before borrowing money from a friend, decide which you need more."

Um..... Okay, anyone else who a pet named after an Alpha Flight character, raise your hands...

( sorry Mik, just hadda, you left me open)