Power of the Twins

[cmdrkoenig67]

You have a very good point about the twins' powers, Del. I don't believe they share powers either....it's more like a symbiosis/blood power-connection....or whatever.

Dana

[kozzi24]

Just stirring the pot here. I can't see how NS and Aurora can share a power as such. I believe they both have the same power and that when they use to touch they could generate this blinding light. This would suggest that they are identical twins, but then surely they would both be of the same gender. Identical twins, one egg, split into two, same gender. Non Identical, two fertilised eggs (Pathway and Goblyn for instance).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that NS and Aurora should be of the same sex and thus one power shard by two, or non identical, similar powers, but no general effect on the other.

That they have shared powers might indicate that something happened to their mother while they were in the womb. This might indicate that they were born with their powers but not necessarily genetic mutants.

[DelBubs]

That they have shared powers might indicate that something happened to their mother while they were in the womb. This might indicate that they were born with their powers but not necessarily genetic mutants.

Except that you have that sequence in AF vol 1 #7/8? which would indicte that Northstars powers kicked in when he achieved puberty. Mac suggests that NS became a better skier after puberty. Plus, the only suggestion at NS's and Aurora's origin was in #51 when Loki suggested that the twins parents had died in a car crash. Any suggestion that womb manipulation took place is a bit tenuous.

Identical powers, twins, but not genetic mutants, how many straws to grasp at would you like. It is obvious that NS and Aurora are twins, there near identical appearence would suggest that although identical there gender may have been affected by whatever substance created the mutation that would manifest at puberty. Instead of fighting the obvious, maybe we should accept it for what it is.

[Sir John A.]

Are you saying they're hermaphrodites?

Maybe the doctors decided JP was more boy than girl and cut accordingly?

[kozzi24]

Any part of their origin from Loki was a lie.
What little we know of their origin is that they were orphaned when their parents supposedly died, then the Martins, who only took in J-P, were killed when he was a bout six. Coincidence, or was someone pursuing the twins and both Beaubiers and Martins gave their lives to the children's defense?
I think what Mac said was more along the lines of a mediocre skier suddenly becoming Olympic "when he learned he could fly." This may was after puberty, but exactly how does someone learn they can fly? We know Aurora learned when she jumped off a building to kill herself. With JP, that was natural to be while in the air on skis, eh?

[Le Messor]

Remember Jurassic Park? "All embryos are inherently female; they need certain hormones to become male. We simply deny them those hormones."

I knew that before the movie, btw...

The point here being, could not, in Marvel Comics if not in reality, two identical twins be born, both supposed to be male, but one was denied the hormone while the other not?

Or, OTOH, were they supposed to be both female, and somehow NS got that hormone, but not enough of it, hence why he's now gay?

Just a thought.

- Le Messor
"Be like a postage stamp – stick to one thing until you get there."

[seroquel]

yeah. hormones dictate sex of the fetus (if you ever take embryology there is painful painful detail in just how blob of cells does both).
I am nerdy and I just looked it up and apparently "discordant monozygotic twins" (dissimilar seeming twins both from the same embryo) is a new topic of study because well, things like this must happen happen occasionally.

Also since this is about powers here goes over thoughtfulness applied to comic canon. i took physics 2 this summer which is all about electricity and magnetism. the way i look at if they can create light (in actuality an electromagnetic wave) wouldn't they be able to control eletric and magnetic fields if they really tried? also could they make all different kinds of electromagnetic waves like x-rays, gamma waves, etc? i think that would be most excellent. and we could move away from aurora and northstar from being eye candy that gets bashed in the head 10 minutes into a battle. Seriously, have they one more than a handful of fights? its always bloody vindicator or box or talisman.

[seroquel]

princess nerdo back. further info on the whole monozygotic different sex twin thing.


Copied from website http://www.devbio.com/article.php?ch=11&id=111

"For example, take the situation of an egg fertilized by a Y-bearing sperm. It has been found (Opitz, 1993) that monozygotic twinning is associated with higher than normal amounts of aneuploidy; so it is possible that if twinning were to occur through the failure of the first two blastomeres to adhere to one another, aneuploidy might also occur. In that case, the twins would have different chromosome complements. If the aneuploidy were for the X chromosome, one twin might by male (XY or XYY) while the other would be female (XO). Such male/female "identical twins" have been found (Edwards et al., 1966; Machin, 1996). These twins would be assumed dizygotic, when they actually had originated monozygotically."

[bigbloo]

Twins dont have to be identical to look alike. We know of brothers and sisters who look almost like mirror images of each other even if they aren't twins.

It would be easier to think of JP and JM as fraternal twins whose look very much alike and just happened to have also inherit similar sets of genes that give them their distinctive powers. The fact that their powers are similar but not exactly the same supports the fraternal twin concept.

[HappyCanuck]

Also since this is about powers here goes over thoughtfulness applied to comic canon... the way i look at if they can create light (in actuality an electromagnetic wave) wouldn't they be able to control eletric and magnetic fields if they really tried? also could they make all different kinds of electromagnetic waves like x-rays, gamma waves, etc? i think that would be most excellent.

YAY!! someone else like me!! (in this case, someone ELSE who tends to overanalyse fictional beings who were created primarily as an escapist form of entertainment) =D>

To compliment what seroquel statedI'm not formally trained in physics, but keep it as a serious hobby, so understand most of what I am about to say below.

[babble] I wanna know where the twin's light comes from. As I understand it, EM radiation - in contrast to kinetic-based energy forms such as sound - are partical based. In this case, the energetic particles are photons. According to physics, if you apply enough energy to a material, the nucleic core of atoms lose subatomic particles - such as electrons, the odd proton and neutron in extreme cases, and smaller quark-related particles such as neutrinos and photons. It's even been discovered that EMR facilitation can produce anti-particles (for those of you who don't know what they are, they are oppositely charged particles. Sorta the energetic version of antimatter). That's all nice and dandy, and what not, but however there's a slight glitch: the laws of conservation states that all energy and matter have finite beginnings (in this case, the hypercharged particles come from atoms). If you take a photon from an atomic core, you have less of a core than you did before (sounds redundant, I know, but it's a valid point that needs to be stated for some). in theory, you could reduce an entire atom into electromagnetic subparticles - the more atoms, the more electromagnetic subparticles - , but you'd have a finite amout of subparticles, at the expence of the original atom. This could prove dangerous to the twins if they 'flash' enough times, as, although there are several quadrillion atoms in a human body, that limit is finite. take into effect how many times Aurora alone 'flashed' - and the intensity of said 'flashes' -, especially after her reunification after her ordeal with Headlok, then, in theory, she'd have destroyed several billion atoms, in some cases per 'flash'. Speaking of flashes, I say boobies. Thats for tjpse of you who have managed to read this far without getting confused or outright getting bored and stopping reading. And one thing I remember about biology is that after a certain age, the body's celluar mitosis is SEVERELY inhibited (although not ceased) - hence why we stop growing. Cellular mitosis is the act of increasing a mass's size by breaking down and incorporating new molecular - thus atomic - structures into the main mass. Most times, this is used regeneratively, to heal wounds and what not, but not at a steady rate (it's been proven that children who suffer massive injuries grow slower. One theory is that this is part of the healing process - redirecting cellular mitosis to injured areas, thus slowing the growth process). During most of her AF career, JM was in her early to mid twenties, meaning she'd finished most of her mitosis, and had relatively fewer cells that would mitose (I think that's a word). However, how many atoms did she obliterate when she 'flashed'? Especially during the Infinity Wars/Crusade, and the subsequent battles, where she 'flashed' ever third panel appearance, you'd think the damage would be significant. Summarily, even more so when she and JP had to touch to 'flash', since it was localised to whereever they touched - primarily the hands. Where i'm going with this is, you'd think that JM would be SERIOUSLY ill, especially in issues 100+ of volume 1, just from the potential radiation poisoning (if atomic masses are disrupted via particle displacement, such as in nuclear fission, the remaining majority of mass is unbalanced, making it unstable, resulting in radiation). How do they (the twins) regenerate subatomic particles?? [/babble]

And if anyone understood what I just said, you get a cookie.

[seroquel]

whoo! hoo! nerds of the world unite!

why does everyone what them to not be identical twins? its sort of negates the whole cool power resonance thing they have going on. Additionally they had identical powers before AF v1 #18 (i believe, but i refuse to get up and look!) when walter put his big foot in it. finally aneuploidy (which is one way that would enable them to be identical opposite sex twins) is not that rare. i am not sitting in front of a stats book here but you or I or nearly anyone you know could possibly be chromosomally analgous and be healthy and functional (though occasionally it does result in infertility because of the genetics). Moreover having extra chromosomes could explain alot about all our super heroes!

Also thanks happy canuck for that thoughtful piece. I always just assumed they had a rate of cellular regenration that was out of this world. As fast as pretty much everything else about them. or maybe they are full of some completely new cellular systems, full of high energy alternative pathways.

Last bit, one issue of bill mantlo's run I think 33, the one where razer comes out of pucks body the 1st time, northstar makes reference to being able to see the emf coming of heather's suit. so i guess someone else thought of it once, then dropped it. sorry this is so long whoops

[HappyCanuck]

... sorry this is so long whoops

LMAO!! Me thinks seroquel doth mock me on my post length!!


(well now, doesn't THAT sound like an unintentional sexual innuendo!! )

[seroquel]

ha ha ha! no, not at all. i am just lousy at ettiquette. and i automatically assume people are rolling their eyes going, man i gotta read all that!

[HappyCanuck]

ha ha ha! no, not at all. i am just lousy at ettiquette. and i automatically assume people are rolling their eyes going, man i gotta read all that!

LOL, you should read some of my older posts! I'm a babble-holic (as most of these guys can attest to), and tend to get long-winded. after reading them, it'll be YOU who will say 'man i gotta read all that!' Look up the one about my theory on Nemesis for example.

[kozzi24]

the laws of conservation states that all energy and matter have finite beginnings (in this case, the hypercharged particles come from atoms). If you take a photon from an atomic core, you have less of a core than you did before (sounds redundant, I know, but it's a valid point that needs to be stated for some). in theory, you could reduce an entire atom into electromagnetic subparticles - the more atoms, the more electromagnetic subparticles - , but you'd have a finite amout of subparticles, at the expence of the original atom. This could prove dangerous to the twins if they 'flash' enough times

What if ther bodies provide the initial reaction for the flash and the rest of the atomic cores used in the flash comes from the air around them?
Byrne also hinted at the electromagnetic abilities of the twins when, in ish 1 or 2, they shorted the power of his suit.
If they do not share powers, how was Northstar able to recharge Aurora when she was powerless during the Hundal run?
Funny about them being knowcked out of fights early. I think that's speedster syndrome where they carry the fight or are knowcked out early. Byrne seemed to go out of his way by stating that they had super speed but not super reflexes, yet most of the time they ran into invisible things, like Delphine as Guardian projecting an energy wall in front of Northstar. Kane took out Northstar by electrocution one issue circa 116. I think you can discount Mantlo's fights as he seemed to only want "his" characters to shine, so the twins and Puck were usually ineffectual