You Gotta Be Kidding Me : Or Are We Kidding Ourselves ?

[Ottawa Renegade]

But many fans of Alpha Flight wanted to see more Alpha Flight in the book, and less "all new". Not a removal of the new, but a balance between what is comfortable and familiar, and what allows a writer to indulge his personal tastes. Some say the book seems to be headed that way after six issues. My impression is that many of the people here would have liked to see that balance from issue one or two.

That's exactly it.

One of my particular irritants is that for all that I'm reading Alpha Flight, I see nods to the X-Men everywhere and a near carbon copy of their first story for the first 6 months of this series. I friggin' hate the X-Men. If I wanted to read X-Men, I'd buy X-Men. There are plenty of X-books around, God knows. I'm dying for this Alpha Flight geek to actually give me some Alpha Flight.

[Ottawa Renegade]

i like this series and this incarnation of alpha flight, but thats not the problem.

if the sales continue the way they are it won't matter who prefers what version of alpha flight because this will be the third series cancelled and a new one will be a looooooong ways off for another writer to try to appeal to the non-hradcore alpha fans so sales will be at a decent non-cancel level.

I just want this series to succeed.

I dont know about this anymore. It wasn't long after the Doom Patrol was cancelled that they relaunched it. Same with the Titans. Did I hear something about New Warriors returning? If this series tanks, it's not necessarily the end of the world, but I'd rather see it get its act together.

[Ben]

all I want to say on this topic at this time is in regards to peoples' complaints about it being mostly new characters. How many times has this been done in the past with other books? Giant Size X-Men #1 was the modle for the first arc. It featured all new characters (for the most part). I'm sure at the time some hardcore X-Men fans weren't happy with all these new characters, but look where it took the book?

What about the Avengeters? How bloody many times have they changed rosters? Brought in a pile of new characters, or new characters to that team?

Not worth getting yer undies in a knot, as we all know the original members will retern before too long, just enjoy the ride eh?

Ben

[Ben]

I dont know about this anymore. It wasn't long after the Doom Patrol was cancelled that they relaunched it. Same with the Titans. Did I hear something about New Warriors returning? If this series tanks, it's not necessarily the end of the world, but I'd rather see it get its act together.

Ummm, why is canceling a series an answer to a direction people don't like these days? It's that kind of treatment that has really hurt the industry in my opinion. Once upon a time when a book wasn't doing well, had low sales, or fans weren't happy with, it would undergo a creative team change. Wouldn't it make more sense to express your opinions to Marvel, so they can see that canceling it isn't the solution? If enough fans down't like how it's going, then they should be encouraged to look at a creativity or directional change. I personally don't want this to be the case, but I'd certainly rather that than not see an other AF book on the shelf for 10 years. Besides, the series is young, and from the looks of the solicits, and from how the last 2 issue arc worked out, this book is finding it's groove, and has a lot of promise. Next arc looks awsome. If you still don't like how it's going though, tell marvel, don't just turn away hoping it will be better "Next Time" if there is a next time.

Ben

[Ottawa Renegade]

You're stating an argument against a point I didn't make. I'm not saying go ahead and cancel it. I'm saying that a cancellation isn't necessarily the end of a series anymore. If it turns out that they decide to go that route, I won't take it to mean that I won't see Alpha flight for years and years. I don't believe that things are that way any longer. I'd RATHER the current series continue and be improved.

As far as new characters go, you didn't quote me so I don't take your comment as being directed at me personally, but as I've said I'm not so bothered by new characters. These particular ones just don't appeal to me, with the exception of MML somewhat.

But I also think you'd be hard-pressed to find any other examples, besides Giant-sized X-Men, of when a relaunch with an almost entirely new cast has worked. You mention the Avengers and I don't know that they've ever relaunched with all new members without keeping some "veterans" around.

Hey, if I tune in to watch Trailer Park Boys on Sunday night, I want Ricky, Bubbles and Julian, yaknowwhatImsayin'??

[Ben]

True, you were not speaking in favour of axing the series, I'm just overly sensitive to the fact that it may be coming. And yes, though it doesn't necesarily mean the end, it certainly won't be back the month after, more than likely it would be at least five years if not not more.

You are correct, the characters comment wasn't directed at you, it was a general statement in response to some of the recent posts while I was aways for the last couple of days. I'm sure in the next few issues you'll see lots of oldies anyway


I know that Scott's plan for the "vetrans" was to have a second series, about them, however it seems to have ticked too many fans off in the process. The sales of ANADAF are way to low for marvel to consider a second book, so if folks would rather see the vets, marvel may make it happen if that's what they hear over and over. I'd personally rather see this book stay on course, and have a separate book launch covering the space travels of the originals.

Ben

[Ottawa Renegade]

I know that Scott's plan for the "vetrans" was to have a second series, about them, however it seems to have ticked too many fans off in the process.

Maybe he gambled and lost a little bit there. Maybe he liked his chances at the other series and didn't take into account the interest some folks still have for the vets.

There are some things that have been hinted at that might fit the bill. Zuzha's background story. Someone mentioned how Jack's eyes are like Snowbird's and that may not be a coincidence. Frogboy (or whatever his name is) could also have ties. Maybe a few more teasers about this stuff should be dropped.

Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to the next four issues. Wasn't there a hint after that from Quesada or someone highly placed that from issue #13 on there we would see a change in direction perhaps? I dont' think I dreamed that...

[PWalk]

Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to the next four issues. Wasn't there a hint after that from Quesada or someone highly placed that from issue #13 on there we would see a change in direction perhaps? I dont' think I dreamed that...

I do remember reading that somewhere. Let's hope Quesada is secretly a huge AF fan and keeps the series around.



And as for appealing characters I think the only one on the squad not that appealing to me is the new Puck. Centennial on the other hand is the freshest take on a super heroe I've read in years. You have an elderly black male who is awakened from a coma to realize he has super powers. Thats an original take and it's one that I look forward to seeing develop in ways my mind can't imagine.

[Ben]

At the Canadian National Comic Book Expo 2004 Joe Quesada made some quotes regarding Alpha Flight:

DAY 2:
"The current Alpha Flight series will not be in “Byrne style”, but such a thing might happen later."

DAY 3:
"Quesada said it’s too soon to tell how Alpha Flight will do, and that Marvel’s giving it a chance to see. They appreciate that it’s doing something different, but he pointed out that “everything’s cyclical” when asked about the return of the classic team."

[HappyCanuck]

At the Canadian National Comic Book Expo 2004 Joe Quesada made some quotes regarding Alpha Flight:

DAY 2:
"The current Alpha Flight series will not be in “Byrne style”, but such a thing might happen later."

DAY 3:
"Quesada said it’s too soon to tell how Alpha Flight will do, and that Marvel’s giving it a chance to see. They appreciate that it’s doing something different, but he pointed out that “everything’s cyclical” when asked about the return of the classic team."

Hmm, how political: answering questions with vague non-answers...

[Northcott]

...the hell?!? How did I not notice Quesada being at the Expo? Or am I thinking of the wrong bloody one again? There's two major conventions in Toronto each year...

Still. Nice to hear.

Anyone know if an AF trade will be coming out? I missed the first couple issues, and Marvel's print-run policy made it impossible to get copies of 'em.

For the record, last I was into the ol' comic shop (a couple months back) I was hearing the same thing from the folks there: the new AF scooped up a huge following right away, with lots of local buzz, but died down after the first few issues as people lost interest and started dumping the title.


Ben: You're right about the Uncanny X-Men and the Avengers, of course, but I think there's two things to bear in mind with those titles:
1) The X-Men are something of an anamoly in the industry. They hit a certain vibe, lucked out with a string of good creative teams, and managed to fill a niche with a success that no other book has been able to reproduce (in spite of many failed attempts over the years). They're the exception that proves the rule.

2) The Avengers' sales have been up and down through the years. Their popularity peaks have, invariably, come when the "core" characters are either mostly or entirely present: Captain America, Thor, Ironman forming the popular core, with Hank Pym and Wasp providing a sense of tradition, not as much popularity as the first three.

Creating an iconic character is kind of the Holy Grail of the comic writer and artist. If they're lucky, they create one in their career. If they're astoundingly blessed, they may create two or three. Kirby's the exception, of course: he created (or contributed to) most of the core Marvel Universe.

[HappyCanuck]

Ummm, why is canceling a series an answer to a direction people don't like these days? It's that kind of treatment that has really hurt the industry in my opinion.

Taking this in it's own context, I couldn't agree more. But if anyone looks at the 'on sale' solit's, you'll notice that, at present, Marvel has WAY too many books on the go. The X-Books alone (since they are the only set I really follow, other than Fantastic Four), I have lost count after close to twenty, what with a MASSIVE influx of solo titles, many Marvel's more than willing to claim as 'cannon fodder' - and now Marvel's having to pick and choose what books to rescue. One again, the Big M's going with 'if you can't baffle them with quality, try inundating them with quantity.'

However, that being said, now adays, when a book undergoes creative rehauling, the big thing to do is bring in big names to redo the series - hopefully to draw out the respective creators' fan base. However, big names tend to bring big egos, and big egos tend to see the best way to fix the so-called 'problems' with complete overhauls. The X-Men core books saw three such overhauls in four years (Revolution, circa X-Men 100; Extinction, circa (New) X-Men 114, and the new relaunch whom we'll call Reformation, circa X-Men 155).

Wouldn't it make more sense to express your opinions to Marvel, so they can see that canceling it isn't the solution? If enough fans down't like how it's going, then they should be encouraged to look at a creativity or directional change. I personally don't want this to be the case, but I'd certainly rather that than not see an other AF book on the shelf for 10 years.

Again, a good idea and good sentiment, but we also don't know what Marvel considers 'enough' fan intervention.

Besides, the series is young, and from the looks of the solicits, and from how the last 2 issue arc worked out, this book is finding it's groove, and has a lot of promise. Next arc looks awsome. If you still don't like how it's going though, tell marvel, don't just turn away hoping it will be better "Next Time" if there is a next time.

Ben

Couldn't have put better myself.

[Mokole]

Thing is, Alpha Flight has an audience. Books like Emma Frost and Mystique are trying to ride on the coattails of X-Men fandom. Neither book has much appeal to any market, if both disappeared who'd care? Alpha Flight is not Avengers or X-Men but heroes fighting the good fight without tons of politics (Avengers) or big wig stuff (Avengers) or angst (X-Men) or 'big' stories (X-Men) that aren't big at all like the last Fury appearance).

AF has a core market of 20000 plus and more on the way. Not bad.

[varo]

well, scott had 6 issues to grab new fans. all the message boards i read all the comic shops i visited the people were saying they will give the series a shot because they liked the originals.


now the series has lost more potential fans than gained and every time the series is cancelled and returned with a all new team the less people are likely to be interested in it.

that being said it seems like the series is starting to get some good reviews and i admit i pick some books up based on those reviews just to at least try them out. if they are good i stick with them, if they aren't i dump them.


hopefully the new found good reviews will help bring some fans back and pull the series from the under 100 sales figure.

[kozzi24]

With the trade released, other fans may discover the title in bookstores and other non-specialty shop outlets that carry the TP's.