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You Gotta Be Kidding Me : Or Are We Kidding Ourselves ?
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Thread: You Gotta Be Kidding Me : Or Are We Kidding Ourselves ?

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  1. #1
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    DelBubs's Avatar
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    Default You Gotta Be Kidding Me : Or Are We Kidding Ourselves ?

    I haven't got #6 yet, but from what I can garner, general consensus is that it pretty much sucked. Are we out of our loyalty to the book and characters making excuses for what is at the end of the day a pretty bad comic and is Lobdell abusing our loyalty with this mish mash of tardy humour?

    AF have taken on Galactus, Doom, The Beyonder, Diablo and numerous other big hitters, so far we have had a revisit to the Plodex who didn't reallly figure in the story, six issues of what? Who's actually jerking off to what here? Is Scott taking our loyalty for granted and expecting us to see what was once a proud team reduced to a circus act for the rest of the MU to take the piss out off? Are we so in need of seeing 'Alpha Flight' on a comic cover that we can't realise when we are being ridiculed?

    Scott gave it all that ANDAF and Uncanny AF spiel, what have we really seen? How loyal are we that we are willing to see AF reduced to a carnival side show, as most reviewers (without our history too the book) would have us believe it is?

    Who's kidding who here?
    Del

    Driftwood: Well, I got about a foot and a half. Now, it says, uh, "The party of the second part shall be known in this contract as the party of the second part."
    Fiorello: Well, I don't know about that...
    Driftwood: Now what's the matter?
    Fiorello: I no like-a the second party, either.
    Driftwood: Well, you should've come to the first party. We didn't get home 'til around four in the morning... I was blind for three days!

  2. #2

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    yes to all above.

  3. #3
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    Now don't get me wrong, I love AF with a passion, but I'm beginning to think that love is being exploited so Scott can get his jollies. When I think back to the Deamqueen arcs, The Master, even Llan, I get to thinking, what the **** is going on? AF should be up there with the Avengers, FF. Walt is a nuclear physicist, not a sequential 'Sideshow Bob' to be used as a foil for a one punchline joke which lost it's impact after one issue.

    I know I'm sounding *****y, but my tolerance and need for AF can only be taken advantage off for 'x' amount of time before I start asking "When do I get mine'?
    Del

    Driftwood: Well, I got about a foot and a half. Now, it says, uh, "The party of the second part shall be known in this contract as the party of the second part."
    Fiorello: Well, I don't know about that...
    Driftwood: Now what's the matter?
    Fiorello: I no like-a the second party, either.
    Driftwood: Well, you should've come to the first party. We didn't get home 'til around four in the morning... I was blind for three days!

  4. #4
    First Flight

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    I kinda feel the same way.

    I thought the whole 6 issue story could have been pulled off in 3 issues.

    Even after 6 issues, what do we know about these new characters? We're not even sure what their powers are!

    In 6 issues I've developed no fondness for any of the new characters who all seem to have the same personality and atitude.

    Message to Marvel

    Get an AF book with the most popular classic characters and a few new ones.

    Make sure Guardian is in there. His costume is iconic and will draw in loyal Canadian readers; I can feel my heart jump everytime I see it portrayed by a good artist. No clone, no "super-armour suit", no Dark-Guardian. Make him the real thing and make us proud.

    Take the book seriously and Canadians will appreciate it and buy the book.

    A writer who is more familiar with Canada would help as well.

  5. #5
    First Flight

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    I think the best way to descrilbe this series is:

    The ANADAF is to Alpha Flight, what "Batman and Robin" was to the Batman movie franchise.

  6. #6
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    No need to apologize, Del. I think the majority of us feel the same way.
    I've been supportive because of the title of the book. I've been vocal about he things I haven't liked from the beginning, and have tried to balance it with the redeeming qualities that the book does possess.

    But don't blame Scott in entirety. I remember an early interview that stated he had made two pitches to Marvel, AF and "Hellions" and he was told to combine the two.

    I would have been whole-heartedly more supportive and less critical of this book if it was titled "Sasquatch" with the focus on Walt. That leads to less expectation for the rest of the true AF, and would have mandated more attention on a beloved character.

    I surprised my retailer (W!ldtime comics, North Attleboro, Massachusetts) by telling him I did not want this title on my pull list as Alpha has always been my #1 book. (I read sci-fi type comics only, and was introduced to AF in Crystar and liked them enough to have picked up issues of AF available at the same time, maybe somewhere around 19 or 20. Super hero titles gradually followed.

    To date, I have picked up every issue of the new series. Let's see... #7 & 8 have the new Alpha fighting was figures of American heroes while Aurora & Madison are still tentatively tied to Weapon X, Northstar in X-Mansion limbo and the rest of the core characters lost in space or general Marvel limbo. And Clayton won't be drawing the issues.

    I'll give the next ish a flip thru and keep a wait and see attitude.
    www.kozzi.us

    recent publications in M-Brane Science Fiction and the anthology Things We Are Not.
    Forthcoming stories in Breath and Shadow, Star Dreck anthology and The Aether Age: Helios.

    ~I woke up one morning finally seeing the world through a rose colored lense. It turned out to be a blood hemorrhage in my good eye.

  7. #7
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    I can sympathize but I'm not giving up on AF. I stuck through version 1 even though I hated the Heather Hudson stuff from day one and couldn't understand how a superhero team would allow so many walking wounded into it's fold (Aurora, Northstar, Pathway, Goblyn, Persuasion all had various problems that would preclide any of them from being on a superhero team, let alone a baseball team) I stayed with v1 AF. I really liked Madison Box Jeffries even when they screwed around with him. I liked Feedback and he disappeared. I NEVER liked Heather Hudson and there she was, issue in and out for 150 issues through v2.

    If Lobdell gets the message to cut the garbage out (like knowing they're in a comic book). And gets a bit more realistic with their actions, we'll have no problems. But if issue #12 is another attempt by Scott to "yuck it up" at our expense (the marriage of Plodex thing to Nemesis! Or Major Mapleleaf gets a bikini wax, oh how funny) AF will disappear for, oh, 20 years.

    We know he reads here and Boardhost and he'll be reading how many of you are dropping this book. I won't, my kids like it (they like the art and characters, the garbage attempts at humour they hate). But again I understand. I want to see Sasquatch clock Juggernaut, Centenniel flatten Iceman, Puck knock out Cyclops and Emma Frost, MML and YJ take out all of the Academy X beanie babies, and not one idiotic joke thrown in. I like these characters and want to keep them around, especially Puck and MML. If Scott cares about these characters he's created and wants ANADAF to succeed then he'll stop goofing around.

    Enough goofy 'homages' to Uncanny X-Men, enough pot shots at the X-Men, enough homages to Byrne AF. Let's get Alpha Flight up to respectability. No humour superhero book can last, none have. As good as Deadpool was it lasted to what, issue 25 before the humour was erased? Even the Exiles get to be heroes.

    Scott, you never treated the X-Men or Generation X like buffoons, WHY ALPHA FLIGHT??

    As I keep saying I like the characters and the basic plot but the scripting needs work. Where are Marts, Moore, and Ryan in all this? Austen screwed with Alpha Flight and Marvel and caught hell from fans tons.

    Mr. Lobdell, please respond.
    Keep your stick on the ice.

    Live it.

  8. #8
    New Recruit

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    Oh, my God.

    I've said all of this before and I'll say it again:

    -Lobdell has always been more of a character-centric writer, not action-oritented. Even on X-Men, Generation X and Fantastic Four, there was plenty of humor and character-driven scenes. I am surprised you referenced those books, as this title looks exactly like his writing on those titles. If you want action, then you are on the wrong book.

    -These first six issues weren't the meat of this series by far. Lobdell has the unenviable task to take a title that is quite possibly the most abused in all the Marvel Universe, and make it garner new readers. Thus, he introduced a completely new cast, while keeping the most popular original Alpha Flight character he could use. But, in order to not get all of the mystery surrounding these characters out of the way in the first arc, he chose to keep it minimal and get the original Alpha Flight team out of the way. Mission Accomplished.

    -Now, he can, over the course of the next few issues, explore the histories and mysteries around these new characters, without having the baggage of the Plodex (a race that was never fully explored before) or the original Alphans. Have you noticed a trend with the popularity of the new characters? The most popular ones are the ones that have the most about their origins revealed. Look for the popularity of the new Puck, Yukon Jack and Centennial to definitely rise to the point where Major Mapleleaf and Nemesis are now.

    This title can only go up.

  9. #9
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    I enjoyed it.

    And no-one can tell me, or anyone else, what I can and can't enjoy. Got that crozack?

    Now try and call me a fanboy.

  10. #10
    Alpha Flight
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    Quote Originally Posted by crozack
    Oh, my God.

    I've said all of this before and I'll say it again
    OK fine. But I have very personal reasons for wanting to see AF succeed, this AF especially. The less important one is that I'm Canadian and the more important one only my wife knows (it really has little, if anything, to do with my children).

    Two years ago someone asked me what comic would be good for kids, all I could think of was Ultimate Spider-Man. He asked a few other people and got the same answer.

    My boys watch tv like most, and they like Justice League and Spongebob and Transformers et al. But do they want JLA comics, or Batman, or Spider-Man?? No way, they refuse to look at them. One of my boys wanted a transformers comic. I bought it, we read it, he doesn't want to see it again. So now all we buy is Alpha Flight for them because they want to read it (or have me do it) and I believe that learning to read with comics added in is part of a good ELA schedule.

    If this Alpha Flight fails I won't get what I need as I mentioned in the first paragraph.

    Of all the characters who has Lobdell hit bang on? Easily Heather Hudson. They save her and her fisrt words are "You didn't call the Avengers"? then she gives them a backhanded compliment. Then she nags Mac. Heather all the way, just how she was since 1983.

    I like how Centenniel grew in the last issue, as well as Puck and Major Mapleleaf. Maybe in issue 7 or 8 we'll get to see some of Puck's other abilities. I don't want to see Alpha Flight die so soon. I have my reasons.

    X-Statix, Captain Marvel, Thanos, Namor, all were pretty poor ideas to begin with and all died early. AF has no need to go that way and I don't want it to, even if it's just so my boys have a good accessible group of superheroes not named Homer or Bart. I like ANADAF and so do they, let's keep it around. Sorry I keep being so verbose, Phil & Ben.
    Keep your stick on the ice.

    Live it.

  11. #11
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    YOU have nothing to apologise for.
    You give your reasons in an intelligent well thought out way.
    You don't try to force them upon others.

  12. #12

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    i didn't like it, but i will never drop this book.


    i just hope it goes on for a 100 more issues.

  13. #13
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    Just a few points to clarify things. When I first heard about AF getting a Vol 3, I was ecstatic. When other books I collect have been canned then I've said 'there ya go, lets look for a replacement'. Each demise of AF has hurt, if that makes me a saddo fanboy, then so be it. I just cannot get around the idea, that somhow the loyalty of AF fans is being exploited a tad. If this was volume 1, then no problem, I would stick with it. It is funny in places and some of the characters are very likeable, but this isn't volume 1, it's vol 3. AF have over twenty five years of history, Wolverine, probably the biggest thing in the MU is inextricably tid to them, his origin owes as much to them as it does the Weapon X prog. AF have fought in numerous Infinity thingies, been involved in Secre Wars 2 and Sas played a large part in the original and best Contest of Champions. I personally do not believe that as of yet vol 3 has been a suitable homage to this great team.

    That said however, I'm here for the duration, but I'd rather that loyalty fans have to the book was seen as somthing more than a selling point.

    Scott went into this with a great deal of enthusiasm, this however seems to have waned over the last few months, ours, however hasn't.
    Del

    Driftwood: Well, I got about a foot and a half. Now, it says, uh, "The party of the second part shall be known in this contract as the party of the second part."
    Fiorello: Well, I don't know about that...
    Driftwood: Now what's the matter?
    Fiorello: I no like-a the second party, either.
    Driftwood: Well, you should've come to the first party. We didn't get home 'til around four in the morning... I was blind for three days!

  14. #14
    Semper ubi sub ubi Alpha Flight
    Legerd's Avatar
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    Although I'm not happy with this version of AF I'm not going to stop buying the book. As long as the book is being published there is the chance for it to change into something more to my tastes. I don't mind humour in a superhero book (Deadpool being a good example) when the humour comes from the character(s) and not the situation or the writer. (As in AF#6 with the charcacters stepping outside the comic.) Would it be so bad if Scott wrote the book with a serious tone while the characters did the jokes?
    I have to admit I agree with Del about feeling like AF (and we fans) are the butt of a bad joke right now. I have patiently waited for issue #6 and I find myself extremely disappointed now that it's arrived. It seems to be neither here nor there. The series doesn't have much (if any) action, yet it's not cerebral enough to get by on story alone. It's filled with humour, but it's all so forced it's not funny. We waited for the old team to show up, yet they were only there for a couple of pages and now they're gone, effectively dead since they're going off into space for Scott only knows how long. And the new team didn't so much rescue them as, through their bumbling actions, accidently freed them.
    I love AF. I want to love this new series, I really do, but as it is right now I don't. I will, however, continue to purchase the book to keep it alive, and I will keep voicing my opinion until I'm happy with it.

    You are a stupid seal with a small rooster. Translate that into french and you'll get it.

  15. #15

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    #4 was a perfect example of how this book can be succesful, with funny backhanded remarks BETWEEN THE CHARACTERS.

    i just don't see how the general public, not us loyal af fans are gonna continue to pick this book up.

    bad end to a 6 issue story arc, and next issue is alpha fighting.......


    wax statues.


    *sigh*

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