Whitman Knapp/Manakin

[jay042]

I always thought Whitt's powers were rather odd anyway. Are his other incarnations actually pulled out of time? Apemand doesn't look like most neaderthals, and I don't recall any one celled creatures growing to the size of Proto. And wouldn't there be a potential temporal paradox in knowing too much of the future from Highbrow?

Or are they more constructs of Whitt's mind? That might explain things a little easier. Apeman being a projection of his Id while Highbrow was a maniefstaion of his Ego, of course where dos that put Proto on the Freudian side of things?

[kozzi24]

I always took them as Knapp's manifestations. Mantlo did some pretty bad things to Alpha, but the man could create unique powers rather than new characters off Superman or Hulk models and archtypes.

[bigbloo]

I think that they are more like alternate reality analogues of Whit, but all along different timelines, like if man didnt evolve, or evolve slower, i dunno.

I was interested in the implication at the end of vol 1 that Whit would be able to TURN INTO his other selves or counterparts, or whatever you call them, instead of manifesting them, and that he would be able to use a whole lot of other selves, not just the three we know about.

[kozzi24]

Maybe Scott will bring him back someday.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Lionel Jeffries, that bastion of sanity and the logical choice of nine out of ten Alpha Flighters in need of medical attention, put his hands on Wanda, Puck, and Whitman Knapp. I'm sure there are others whom I've either forgotten or don't know about. I don't like the character---never have, never will---but SCRAMBLE is likely to come back, sooner or later.

The likelihood of me buying an AF comic book with SCRAMBLE is close to none.

Would I use a version of SCRAMBLE in a story? Yes, absolutely, just so I could kill him.

[maniac mike]

I always thought MANIKIN was a lame codename for Whitman, maybe they should change it to TRIAD, what do you think?!

MM

[Garry/Al-Fan]

This goes against every paranoid principle I have, but my choice of a code-name for Whitman is SCRAMBLE, THE MIXED-UP MAN.

[Adam]

Manikin always struck me as a decent supporting character (when he worked with Walt) but I hated him as a hero, mainly because I felt his power made no sense at all. I mean, try explaining what he does to someone who has never read about him in 1 sentence:

"Knapp can summon forth this future version, apeman version and gelatinous blob version of himself that represent either him from another time (which makes no sense) or him from another reality and all these versions of him knew what to do and could communicate, even the blob and ape guy...."

Ugh...

[Garry/Al-Fan]

With Whitman's assistance, Lionel ran the New Life clinic without a license (knowingly helping to get body parts by killing people, which is aiding and abetting criminal activity if I'm not mistaken). Puck and Northstar both felt that Lionel was their only hope for survival. However, Puck is confortable around magic, so he shouldn't have been afraid to go looking for Shaman and say "Look, I need some help and you're the best doctor I know. Lionel Jeffries is a flake, and I wouldn't trust 'im any further than my grandma could throw 'im." Northstar just doesn't seem like the trusting type, especially of a flesh-mutating headcase like Lionel.

As for Whitman, Lionel brought out the many versions of Knapp when he laid hands on him. Whitman has always had the potential to be a bad-guy, he is a bad-guy as far as I'm concerned, and if getting touched by SCRAMBLE wasn't enough, he was psychically killed by Somon/"Somon" [unless that turned out to be a dream or something; don't know, didn't buy AF much after that issue]

Why Madison suggested his brother to be a member of Alpha Flight is still beyond me.

[Ben]

When Knapp was involved with the New Life clinic, he believed it was on the up-and up. He had no idea that Lionel had not reformed. His reformation was believed by the members of Alpha Flight, which is why he was accepted as an associate. Madison Jeffries didn't ever actually suggest Lionel become a member of AF...at least not that I can recall, he was just used as an associate. I don't recall knapp every killing anyone, or getting body parts either....it was when he challanged the nature of Lionel's operation that he first got exposed to the scrable power, and when he sided with AF for good that he got mutated, activating his own mutant abilities.

Come to mention it...when did he get "killed" by Somon? I don't recall this...there was some dream induced stuff during the second coming of the Dream Queen, but that part doesn't sound at all fammiliar.... The closest to death he came was in the later part of the run when he got poisoned by a scratch from The Jackal.

Ben

[rplass]

Excerpted from DMK's guide:

"Whitman Knapp was originally able to manifest three "evolutionary counterparts" of himself: a blob of protoplasm, a primitive human, and a highly-evolved humanoid."

and

"Each counterpart had its own personality, although all would follow Knapp's spoken orders.
The blob of protoplasm, nicknamed "Proto", could "eat" through most substances. "Ape-Man" was quite a bit stronger and more agile than a normal human. "Highbrow" possessed numerous mental abilities, including telepathy and teleportation."

Love,
rplass

[Garry/Al-Fan]

When Knapp was involved with the New Life clinic, he believed it was on the up-and up. He had no idea that Lionel had not reformed. His reformation was believed by the members of Alpha Flight, which is why he was accepted as an associate. Madison Jeffries didn't ever actually suggest Lionel become a member of AF...at least not that I can recall, he was just used as an associate. I don't recall knapp every killing anyone, or getting body parts either....it was when he challanged the nature of Lionel's operation that he first got exposed to the scramble power, and when he sided with AF for good that he got mutated, activating his own mutant abilities.

Come to mention it...when did he get "killed" by Somon? I don't recall this...there was some dream induced stuff during the second coming of the Dream Queen, but that part doesn't sound at all familiar.... The closest to death he came was in the later part of the run when he got poisoned by a scratch from The Jackal.

All of this happened somewhere between the introduction of Kara Killgrave and "Friends": Knapp knew the New Life Clinic was unlicensed; he was the one who revealed that fact. Knapp's still an accomplice to what went on at the unlicensed New Life Clinic even if he himself didn't kill anyone, unless ignorance can be used as an excuse to get away with being an accessory to crimes. Lionel touched Knapp's head, causing Knapp to become deformed and triggering his latent power, and Madison was aware that his brother was using body parts of dead people....and said it. Heather put going to Lionel to some parlimentary vote and the rest of AF felt that was the best thing to do (still don't understand why: Shaman saved Puck when he was disemboweled, and Shaman helped save Walt's soul, which revived Aurora, Northstar, and Talisman in AFV1#24; Lionel Jeffries turned Heather into a grotesquery, made monsters of normal human beings, and killed folks to get the body parts he needed), and Madison did suggest Lionel become a member of AF. I'm at the library, not at home, so I'll have to check the exact book #s when I get back.

Somon psychically "killed" Whitman in AFV1#55 (?), but like I said I don't know if this turned out to be an illusion by DreamQueen or not.

[Ben]

All of this happened somewhere between the introduction of Lara Killgrave and "Friends": Knapp knew the New Life Clinic was unlicensed; he was the one who revealed that fact. Knapp's still an accomplice to what went on at the unlicensed New Life Clinic even if he himself didn't kill anyone, unless ignorance can be used as an excuse to get away with being an accessory to crimes.

I don't see how that makes him a "bad guy". Walt did human experimentation without a license, does that make him a bad guy? It was pretty obvious that Whit thought the new-life clinic was a good thing, he had no idea at first that Lionel was nuts, and when he did realize, he did the right thing. He has never shown his character to be evil, or to even have any bad intentions. He's a good man, though he does like his women kinda young...

Lionel touched Knapp's head, causing Knapp to become deformed and triggering his latent power, and Madison was aware that his brother was using body parts of dead people....and said it.

Not debating that fact, sounds bang on. And when they realized that he was doing innapropriate things, such as using dead body parts on Bochs he was confronted, he showed his true colours ect.

Heather put going to Lionel to some parlimentary vote and the rest of AF felt that was the best thing to do (still don't understand why: Shaman saved Puck when he was disemboweled, and Shaman helped save Walt's soul, which revived Aurora, Northstar, and Talisman in AFV1#24; Lionel Jeffries turned Heather into a grotesquery, made monsters of normal human beings, and killed folks to get the body parts he needed), and Madison did suggest Lionel become a member of AF. I'm at the library, not at home, so I'll have to check the exact book #s when I get back.

It's easy to understand why they would want a guy like this in thier corner. Michael used conventional means to heal Puck, he was still in the hospital for some time, and took a while to get properly healed up. If you have a guy who can fix you with one touch after getting gutted, I think that would be a nice resource for a super hero team to have.

I can't remember specifically if he was suggested to be a member or not, and don't feal like diggin' through issues just now. If such a thing did happen, it must have been just a pannel or two that I dont' recall.

Somon psychically "killed" Whitman in AFV1#55 (?), but like I said I don't know if this turned out to be an illusion by DreamQueen or not.

Yah, just looked this one up, he did indeed run his nasty fingers through Knapp and all his other selves. In the next issue they were staggering about, and he referred to them as having been injured, and when he drew his other selves back into himself it made him whole, effectively healing him...looks like Mantlo had to back peddle a bit on this one

Ben

[Garry/Al-Fan]

All of this happened somewhere between the introduction of Kara Killgrave and "Friends": Knapp knew the New Life Clinic was unlicensed; he was the one who revealed that fact. Knapp's still an accomplice to what went on at the unlicensed New Life Clinic even if he himself didn't kill anyone, unless ignorance can be used as an excuse to get away with being an accessory to crimes.

I don't see how that makes him a "bad guy." [Lionel is reprehensible, abominable, evil, and a bad-guy;Whitman may not be evil but is a bad-guy because he helps truly evil person do things that a decent intern/person would not do.] Walt did human experimentation without a license, does that make him a bad guy? [No, it doesn't make him a bad-guy due to motivation. PhD in good standing, affliated with Simon Fraser University, Walt experimented on himself and Aurora, did not turn her into a monster, so who else did Walt experiment on and without a license? I probably don't have that issue. Garry/Al-Fan] It was pretty obvious that Whit thought the new-life clinic was a good thing, he had no idea at first that Lionel was nuts, and when he did realize, he did the right thing. He has never shown his character to be evil, or to even have any bad intentions. He's a good man, though he does like his women kinda young...


AFV1# 44, page 3, panel 6 -

CAPTION: "But the treatment taking place in New Life's subterranean laboratories is anything but usual."

Knapp: "Do you really think you can cure Box, Dr. Jeffries?"
Lionel: "Of course, Dr. Knapp!"
"When I chose you as my intern, I made you privy to my power
to make broken bodies whole."
Knapp: "I know that--I saw how you cured Puck--and I think the
authorities were wrong to deny you a license simply because of
your unorthodox methods!"


AFV1# 46, page 6, panels 4, 5, and 6:

panel 4

Knapp: "Dr. Jeffries, I haven't your powers, but I've learned so
much about novel approaches to medicine from you that I've
hesitated to question some of the radical cures you achieve as Scramble.."

Lionel: "But now you feel compelled to, Dr. Knapp?"

Knapp: "It was the strange splotches I noticed on Mr. Bochs' new legs, sir!"

panel 5

Knapp: "Almost as if they were...decomposing!"

Lionel: "Silence, or I'll transmutate you into inrecognizibility. Perhaps I could not cure Langkowski, but my power over human subjects is...must be...unquestionable!"

Panel 6

Lionel: "Were I ever to doubt that, why I---I might go...mad!"

Whitman didn't warn a single, solitary Alphan that his boss was losing his mind. And if Alpha Flight couldn't help Whit, who could?

...And when they realized that he was doing innapropriate things, such as using dead body parts on Bochs he was confronted, he showed his true colours ect.

AFV1# 48, page 10, panel 6

Lionel: "New Life caters to the incurable. Some I have successfully restored...by giving them parts taken from others."

Madison: "I-I knew you were using body parts--But I didn't think you killed to get them!"


AFV1# 48, page 11, panel 5

Knapp: "When I thought you were using your powers to cure the incurable, I idolized you! When some of the patients died and you used their corpses for experimentation, I chalked that up to the good of science!"

It's easy to understand why they would want a guy like this in thier corner. Michael used conventional means to heal Puck, he was still in the hospital for some time, and took a while to get properly healed up. If you have a guy who can fix you with one touch after getting gutted, I think that would be a nice resource for a super hero team to have.

I have to disagree. It's not easy to understand why anyone who saw what Lionel Jeffries did to Heather Hudson and the patients in the hospital where he was institutionalized would pick him over the reknowned, respected, and highly effective surgeon Dr. Michael Twoyoungmen. Quick fixes seldom work, and Alpha Flight had evidence all along the way that Lionel's cures did not work, whereas they had walking, living proof that Michael's treatments did. Michael used a combination of magic and conventional medicine, the combination of which probably saved Puck's life.

I can't remember specifically if he was suggested to be a member or not, and don't feal like diggin' through issues just now. If such a thing did happen, it must have been just a pannel or two that I dont' recall.

That's okay, I did my homework last night. AFV1# 45, page 10, panel 3 -

Madison: "But what about Scramble, Heather? Don'tcha think it's time we
made him an honorary Alphan?"

Somon psychically "killed" Whitman in AFV1#55 (page 17, panel 3), but like I said I don't know if this turned out to be an illusion by DreamQueen or not.

Yah, just looked this one up, he did indeed run his nasty fingers through Knapp and all his other selves. In the next issue they were staggering about, and he referred to them as having been injured, and when he drew his other selves back into himself it made him whole, effectively healing him...looks like Mantlo had to back peddle a bit on this one

Ben

[Ben]

Well, it all really boils down to intent doesn't it? You said that Walt wasn't eveil because of his intent, well, Knapp's intent was good too. If he is guilty of anything, it's poor judgement about Jeffries, but all of Alpha was just as guilty of that. They were of the mind that he was reformed. If you truely belive someone was insane, and is no longer such, are they still to be treated as insane? Yes, he was still nutz, just learned to hide it better, however they did honestly belived he had been cured of his insanity.

I agree with your distaste for what Mantlo did to exising characters, however I do like the characters he created.

As for Walt, I was refering to his experimentation on himelf and Aurora. He has also admitted to signing false documents regarding the metal stability of Wild Child to get him into the Alpha program.

Ben