Whitman Knapp/Manakin

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Well, it all really boils down to intent doesn't it? You said that Walt wasn't evil because of his intent, well, Knapp's intent was good too. [I said Walt isn't a bad-guy; whether he is evil or whether what he has done is evil is open to interpretation. I don't consider what he did to be evil in regards to himself and Aurora because of his intent, but other people may not see it that way] If he is guilty of anything, it's poor judgement about Jeffries [how would intern/Dr. Knapp ever be licensed to practice medicine once the medical community learned of his involvement with NEW LIFE clinic? I don't think that Knapp could count on a recommendation from Dr. Michael Twoyoungmen], but all of Alpha was just as guilty of that. They were of the mind that he was reformed. If you truly believe someone was insane, and is no longer such, are they still to be treated as insane? Yes, he was still nutz, just learned to hide it better, however they did honestly believe he had been cured of his insanity. [Having looked back over these issues, it appears that Dr. Lionel did the brain-alterations on gravedigger Madison*, not vise-versa, then Madison helped convince the rest of Alpha Flight (with the exception of Heather) that Lionel was okay]

I agree with your distaste for what Mantlo did to exising characters, however I do like the characters he created. [Now that my intention is known with regard to the comic book character Whitman Knapp, the likelihood of me getting a chance to do it is even slimmer than before. 'Whitman Knapp' is quite safe. GRJ]

As for Walt, I was refering to his experimentation on himself and Aurora. He has also admitted to signing false documents regarding the mental stability of Wild Child to get him into the Alpha program. [didn't know about this; I assume this happened after becoming the amalgam of Tanaraq, Snowbird, Wanda, whoever else, or is this another retcon?]

Ben

* How exactly did Madison think his brother was going to get body parts?

[Ben]

[I said Walt isn't a bad-guy; whether he is evil or whether what he has done is evil is open to interpretation. I don't consider what he did to be evil in regards to himself and Aurora because of his intent, but other people may not see it that way]

Oh, I totally agree, that was my point. I was drawing a paralell between Walt and Knapp, making intent the point. Walt had good intent, though what he did medically was stictly illegal. Knapp had good intent, thoug he assistand someone who medially was practicing illegally.

[Now that my intention is known with regard to the comic book character Whitman Knapp, the likelihood of me getting a chance to do it is even slimmer than before. 'Whitman Knapp' is quite safe. GRJ]

Well, opinions discussed here don't have any bearing on what Marvel will consider

As for Walt, I was refering to his experimentation on himself and Aurora. He has also admitted to signing false documents regarding the mental stability of Wild Child to get him into the Alpha program.

[didn't know about this; I assume this happened after becoming the amalgam of Tanaraq, Snowbird, Wanda, whoever else, right?]

It was revealed when Wild Child returned to AF as Weapon Omega, and went through a bit of an identity crisis. Walt was racked with guilt because he feels that WC never would have gone evil, been jailed, and had to constantly fight for control over his wild side if Walt hadn't fudged the papers to get him into the program. He would have gotten the medical help that later gave him control (though in the end he lost control anyway).

* How exactly did Madison think his brother was going to get body parts from?

Well, it was never really explored by Alpha what kind of work Lionel was doing before it was too late. Jeffries and Alpha had been told that when Lionel "fixed" bochs he used his excess body fat to rebuild his legs, where in truth he used dead body parts.

Ben

[kozzi24]

Knapp was an intern with Jeffries, that much we know.
If we assume (yeah, dangerous ground) that he went to some official medical school, or at least knew enough about medical school, he would know they experiment on dead bodies there also.
Basically, his initial ignorance can be forgiven because he probably assumed that the dead bodies were obtained through legal means.

Most new meds and procedures start off as something less than official, at least these days. Does anyone thing the pharmaceutical-govern US would ever approve of a potential CURE for diabetes if Canada and the UK had not been publicly proceeding with it? Bona fide therapies do arise out of unconventional experimentation, so I think Knapp's covered for some of his ignorance, even with the dialogue Garry quoted.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I didn't write Knapp into this hole. His bona fide credentials were not presented, as Walt's were in Hulk Annual# 8. Walt stuck to his field of biophysics, not mind-tampering or deadbody-grafting. Please tell me what normal intern/doctor does mind-tampering and deadbody-grafting of the sort Lionel Jeffries practiced, please?

Again, I didn't write Knapp into this hole. The evidence
points to the unpleasant truth, for those who only want to see goodness and light in Whitman Knapp. The medical community would not be so quick to embrace Knapp knowing that he was associated with the New Life Clinic, and Alpha Flight---as Royal Canadian Mounted Police auxilliaries---would be derelict in their duty if they did not make what went on there known.

[Ben]

I didn't write Knapp into this hole. His bona fide credentials were not presented, as Walt's were in Hulk Annual# 8. Walt stuck to his field of biophysics, not mind-tampering or deadbody-grafting. Please tell me what normal intern/doctor does mind-tampering and deadbody-grafting of the sort Lionel Jeffries practiced, please?

Again, I didn't write Knapp into this hole.

Nope, and I don't think anyone said you did Garry Not sure what hole yer talking about, but no one thinks yer Bill Mantlo. And Whitman didn't do any mind-tampering or dead body grafting. He acted as an intern to a man that he believed was doing a good thing. Good intentions, period. IMO he is a was always a good person in the books, who suffered from poor judgement. That's my opinion, and you have yours.

Ben

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Not sure what hole yer talking about, but no one thinks yer Bill Mantlo.

Thank goodness. [-o<

I should've said "situation" instead of "hole."

Anyway, I'm ready to give this topic a rest, and I hope some of the new people will introduce themselves in the Cupboard and fill out the questionnaire.