Early evidence of Northstar's homosexuality

[Richv1]

I wouldn't mind seeing that in a JLA comic. But I doubt we will. It is rare to seeing any kissing in it. I know Batnan and Wonder Woman have kissed but that lead nowhere.
Maybe a Vertigo comic might have shown something like that. But not main stream DC.
I don't think I would agree with a lot of your comparisons. Savage Dragon is a totally different character than the Hulk. Both are green and strong but there the similiarities end. The same can be said about the New warriors and Teen Titans. But the Authority and JLA. As you said Apollo and Midnighter are suppost to be gay Superman and Batman. There powers are almost the same from the little I've read. The Authority has a magical Doctor similar to Dr. Fate both are even called Dr.'s. The Authority has a winged girl like Hawkgirl or Hawkman. And the Engineer I'm not sure of her powers but she looks a lot like a female version of Captain Atom.

[beetleblack]

Maybe I'm reading more into it than what there actually is, but I believe Xian whatever and Danielle Moonstar could be a partenership ??

Xian is the lesbian HOWEVER when I first started reading I actually thought that Danielle Moonstar was the lesbian (mainly because I got confused with who Karma was when I was reading on a website!) and continued to think that she was until I realised that Xian was Karma and Danielle was Mirage (/Moonstar). I DO think that they would make a good couple though.

As for Apollo and Midnighter, I only started reading The Authority on Del's recommendation and I have to say that it's certainly interesting and nice to see a gay couple represented. (They had the gay wedding thing btw).

At the end of the day Marvel are too scared to touch this issue with a bargepole these days because they are scared of the reaction of it's readers and the general homophobic views of society in general.

[DelBubs]

I don't think I would agree with a lot of your comparisons. Savage Dragon is a totally different character than the Hulk. Both are green and strong but there the similiarities end. The same can be said about the New warriors and Teen Titans.

Green, super strong, crap character, I can see how there might not be any comparison, what you after, genetic fingerprinting to see if they're related. Dragon is a complete rip off of Hulk, who in turn is a rip off of Mr Hyde. Who was originally written as the dark side of human nature. Ergo Hulk, next step Savage Dragon. Plagerism is the main stay of the comics industry, new characters are dfficult to create, cos most aspects have been explored. New Warriors, team group, Thrash = Batman etc, Robin = teen Batman, Titans and Warriors equate.

But the Authority and JLA. As you said Apollo and Midnighter are suppost to be gay Superman and Batman. There powers are almost the same from the little I've read. The Authority has a magical Doctor similar to Dr. Fate both are even called Dr.'s. The Authority has a winged girl like Hawkgirl or Hawkman. And the Engineer I'm not sure of her powers but she looks a lot like a female version of Captain Atom.

Midnighter would kick crap out of Batman without breaking into a sweat. Of course the Authority are a rip off of the JLA, but as was said earlier, mos characters are rip offs. The Authroity have gone beyond the JLA, their stories are more cinematic, a status quo in the Authority is a thing you'd never see. They are horrible in a lot of respects, they are pretentious. However when all is said and done, they are refreshing in that they are flawed and are prepared to use all means necessary to achieve what they percieve as rightous aims. Oh and they have a gay couple, which was the initial premise that sent us down this path.

[Richv1]

My last post for some reason didn't work lets hope this one does.
I agree with showing contraversail subjects but I can also see Marvel's point about shying away from it if they think it might cause them to lose sales since that is the bottom line. If comics don't sell they won't be in business long and the majority of people are straight. Most people that buy comics are straight. There are exceptions of course I work with a lesbian that enjoys the X-Men comics and cartoons.

[DelBubs]

Most people that buy comics are straight. There are exceptions of course I work with a lesbian that enjoys the X-Men comics and cartoons.

I'm of the opinion that the split between gay/straight readers may be in favour of straight, but I wouldn't say it was an overwhelming majority. With Alpha especially there would seem to be a very large gay readership.

[SwiftFox]

I'm of the opinion that the split between gay/straight readers may be in favour of straight, but I wouldn't say it was an overwhelming majority. With Alpha especially there would seem to be a very large gay readership.

Add to that of course that not all straight people have issues with homosexuality. I understand that obviouslly some do, like the guy who wrote a letter (can't remember which ish it appeared, maybe 11 or 12?) during Vol 2, saying that because Northstar appeared in issue 8, he was dropping the title. But looking at the other side of it, despite the fact that it pretty much used the same tired old jokes as every other sitcom, Will & Grace was a very popular show for some time. And it was on a major network, at Prime time and is now even syndicated into earlier time slots. It's not something people can "shelter" their children from. (And to quote you from earlier Del... I am agreeing with you here, even if I went on a tangent and it may or may not sound like it...)

[Richv1]

So if Alpha has a 50/50 or better gay readership does that mean half the people posting here are gay?

[SwiftFox]

So if Alpha has a 50/50 or better gay readership does that mean half the people posting here are gay?

Dude, we have a new Alpha Flight series... we're all 'very happy' :P

[DelBubs]

So if Alpha has a 50/50 or better gay readership does that mean half the people posting here are gay?

I've never actually done a census, isn't really an issue, but I would hazard that out of the regular posters here, a fair number are gay.

Add to that of course that not all straight people have issues with homosexuality. I understand that obviouslly some do, like the guy who wrote a letter (can't remember which ish it appeared, maybe 11 or 12?) during Vol 2, saying that because Northstar appeared in issue 8, he was dropping the title. But looking at the other side of it, despite the fact that it pretty much used the same tired old jokes as every other sitcom, Will & Grace was a very popular show for some time. And it was on a major network, at Prime time and is now even syndicated into earlier time slots. It's not something people can "shelter" their children from. (And to quote you from earlier Del... I am agreeing with you here, even if I went on a tangent and it may or may not sound like it...)

I'm of the opinion that anyone who has an issue with anything that they believe makes a person diverse, is in a minority themselves. That prat who wrote that letter obviously lives a sheltered life and spends a lot of his time sleeping with his relatives and cleaning hs gun. Dreaming of the day when the KKK takes control of the US :P Regarding Will and Grace, we get that here, but I think it's pretty crap, but only cos I find it totally unfunny.

Regarding sheltering children, thats kinda bizarre, what we gonna do, hide them away from Ethnic groups. Homosexuality is much a part of life as Mums apple pie or whatever else you can think of that is part and parcel of everyday life. My 15 year old daughters best friend is a Bi lad in her class, they spend there time together fawning over Orlando Bloom, so maybe they both need help, god he's ugly.

[kozzi24]

daughters best friend is a Bi lad in her class, they spend there time together fawning over Orlando Bloom, so maybe they both need help, god he's ugly.

Jeff Kozzi wets himself laughing

[kozzi24]

So if Alpha has a 50/50 or better gay readership does that mean half the people posting here are gay?
_________________
Richard Vasseur

DelBubs wrote:
I've never actually done a census, isn't really an issue, but I would hazard that out of the regular posters here, a fair number are gay.

I would think the chicken-and-the-egg condruum (sp) on this. Gay people that read comics gravitate for the things they identify with. I think a lot of it goes down to minority mindset. The "mainstream" audience for any media does not buy things because it is by/about other SWMs. They go strictly for what they personally like. A good example here is when an out of town black old college friend visited once, she was looking at my CD collection and pointing out certain disks to her daughter. "Oh, look, Llionel Ritchie. Oh Look, Tina Turner." and saying this with the tone of "what a cultured white boy to have music by black artists."
I like Will & Grace sometimes, if only because I solidly recognize that all humor is mean (there's always a butt to the joke, the recipient of the pie in the face.) They're all mean to each other, and that's the form of humor. Then they do episodes on the gay experience and the show loses me.

Minorities are also self defined, and as liberal minded as I try to be, I still can't equate sexual preference to skin color. I can accept it, but I don't want too many details, and if the person presents hir sum totality as the minority group se thinks se belongs to, I get bored with that person fast, and feel bad for them for limiting themselves so much. Many people here I think probably got into Alpha Flight as "the Northstar book," only because Northstar is gay.

Northstar was my favorite Alpha. I like speed-powered characters, and his abrasive personality always spiced up the scenes he appeared in, the same way Namor and Moondragon and Hawkeye spice things up when they're written well.

I have NOT liked Northstar in X-Men, because it is obvious his inclusion was based solely on his sexuality. Aurora--as a professional teacher who probably can't hold down a job due to her MPD and superhuman activities--would have been a better choice. Where's the Northstar who was a former terrorist? Where's the Northstar who was neither a leader nor a follower? Where's the Northstar who was an orphan with unexplored origins? Where's the Northstar who was trying to build and maintain a relationship with effectively two different sisters that he didn't know growing up? Where's the Northstar who was defensive and fully exhibited the "Quicksilver syndrome." Where's the Northstar who was so Machavellian as to strike down Storm from behind to make sure his team's objectives were won?

That Northstar's been nowhere to be seen, as I think Scott Lobdell has pointed out, because Chuck Austen would rather have a gay character to have a crush on Iceman and explore Juggernaut's sexuality.
Northstar's still a favorite character from the good old days, and I've been waiting since the end of Vol 1 to see him used well. The LS explored himself some, then got down to it all being about him being gay. Scott's use in his four issue new-team run in X-Men was the best example, and I thought the gay references were reasonable considering the book tour direction of the character, but it went over the top in forcing a kiss of life to a homophobic character. (A much more interesting scenario would have been the worst, could the homophobe save the life of a gay with the kiss of life, especially if the gay was unconscious for saving the homophobe?)

Suprisingly, I didn't have any problem with the "I am gay!" outburst during the fight with Mapleleaf senior, because it made sense in the context of the ongoing fight and debate. I had a problem with the press conference because it was completely out of character for a defensive, self-isolationist man.

Has anyone else proposed Northstar's character be explored outside the gay perimeters?

If Northstar had a solo book and they want to risk reader alienation by making it a gay book, that's their risk. But Alpha is a team book. Romance in mainstream superhero comics should have direct impact on the team. When Sasquatch and Aurora got together, there was the question of what the rest of the Flight would make of the romance. Heather's relationships explored her post widowhood and how her leadership and the team itself would be affected.

Aside his crush on Heather, I'm sure a guy like Puck has not been celibate, but I don't need to know what relationships he might have had because they didn't effect the team. I don't need to know whether Heather lays back or mounts Mac, or whether Aurora's adventurism is oral or coital. I don't need anything past a "I've been seeing someone" from Northstar on page unless he's being played by someone trying to get to the team, and even in that case, I don't really need anything that goes further than necessary to establish hints that the boyfriend will be an upcoming threat to the team.

The more graphic or revealing stories about character's personal lives are best left for the fanfic.

[HappyCanuck]

... surprisingly, I agree with Kozzi almost entirely...

[Richv1]

I don't think it should matter what sexuality a characater is as lond as it fits them. But leaning about the characters personality is part of what makes a comic great that it gets you to identitfy with the person and know how they react most times. You get a look inside their heads. So you actually feel for them. Northstar's sexuality shouldn't be exploited just for the sake of it. But it also shouldn't be ignored.

[Phil]

I think gay relationships in comics should be banned.

And straight ones.

And people with children.

And people kissing.

And people cursing.

And people wearing clothes.

And people eating apples.

[SwiftFox]

PHIL!!!!!

You just made me wet my pants.... :P