Early evidence of Northstar's homosexuality

[beetleblack]

And Byrne did also plant the idea in our heads in...issue....ummm, 17 I think without having my comics on hand. The one where heather is holding Jimmy's old suit up to herself in the mirror.

Ben

It was #18, #17 had the image of the fight from UXM #109 on the cover (?).

All that comics stuff above is a smokescreen, to try and disguise the fact, that I never really took that image of Heather holding up the suit as a prelude of things to come, but just her giving a memory form. Oh and I never really got the Northstar being gay for a long time. Thats why I read spoilers, so I know what the hell is actually happening.

Nope, I never figured Northstar was gay the first time around either, although on re-reading the series the signs are there from the outset, or am I just reading things into it in retrospect?

[kozzi24]

The signs on Northstar's orientation were all there, but Byrne was a lot more subtle. If you didn't get it by Mantlo's crack of Northstar not objecting to tightly-dressed men around, shame on you. Byrne's hints were sly and well covered by circumstances, i.e. Northstar in Aurora's room in #1, "but this is not a man!" or Heather calling him "a toffee-nosed little--!" or Puck keeping a physical distance even while Northstar was flying him. Even UXM #121, with Aurora's statement that she was a lover, her brother was a fighter. in the late teens, there was a letter that was answered with a "cryptic yes" but the letter and question were not printed. My bet is someone figured it out and wrote to ask. If I remember the rumor mills right, everyone in the bullpen knew (he was drawn limp wristed in Crystar) but Jim Shooter did not want it openly said or acknowledged.

[SwiftFox]

i.e. Northstar in Aurora's room in #1, "but this is not a man!"

See that.... I don't get as a reference to homosexuality... and I really think the gay guys on the list might agree... they're still men...

Personally I use expressions like that all the time like:
"It's hard to talk to girls."
"You're talking to me..."
"You're not a girl, you're my sister."

I think it was more THAT kind of reference. The 'he's not like a REAL man because he's my brother." NOT "He's not a man, he's gay..."

[Nalyd Psycho]

I agree with SwiftFox. That seems like reading into it with the knowledge we have now.

[kozzi24]

Personally I use expressions like that all the time like:
"It's hard to talk to girls."
"You're talking to me..."
"You're not a girl, you're my sister."

That's exactly as it was phrased in the #1 scene, only Aurora was talking to a mother superior type.
A double entendre, intentional on Byrne's part

[Phil]

A double entendre, intentional on Byrne's part

But that's your opinion in hindsight rather than a fact, surely?
Unless Byrne has ever stated that that line was a reference to his sexuality it can't be presumed as it being that way.

[SwiftFox]

That's exactly as it was phrased in the #1 scene, only Aurora was talking to a mother superior type.
A double entendre, intentional on Byrne's part

Right, but I'm not saying it because my sister is a lesbian I'm saying it because I don't think of her as regular girl.

Personally I'd pretty ticked if my sis said I wasn't a man because I was gay. And further to Phil's point, if you're not Byrne, or if he didn't tell you thats what it meant, then you don't know what meaning he had.

[Mystic]

There were definite hints about Northstar's sexual preference in Byrne's run. Actually, through most of the series. The one that comes to mind is when JP made a comment on Aurora's personal life, and she shot back with 'You, of all people, shouldn't tell me how to live my life'.

-Mystic

[beetleblack]

The one that stood out for me at the time of reading it (rather than later when I re-read the series in hindsight) was after Walter had just come back as Wanda and there was discussion between Wanda and JP and he said how he felt after Walter had died, which implied to me that he had been in LOVE with Walter! Sadly this was never mentioned again even when Wanda became Walter again.

Btw, along with Mac coming back from the dead time and time again, I rate Wanda being transformed back into Walter a mistake (oh dear, I fear not many people will agree with me on this one, though!) - there was so much that could have been explored with Walter as Wanda which never was (we had the whole legal issue with his estate etc, but the emotional side of the character was never really picked up on - Walter seemed to accept being Wanda way too easily, there should have been more angst etc).

[SwiftFox]

Btw, along with Mac coming back from the dead time and time again, I rate Wanda being transformed back into Walter a mistake (oh dear, I fear not many people will agree with me on this one, though!) - there was so much that could have been explored with Walter as Wanda which never was (we had the whole legal issue with his estate etc, but the emotional side of the character was never really picked up on - Walter seemed to accept being Wanda way too easily, there should have been more angst etc).

I agree, it was pretty bizzare, but at the same time... brilliant! It was a very different idea... As for his side of it... did you read Mako's fic?

[beetleblack]

Btw, along with Mac coming back from the dead time and time again, I rate Wanda being transformed back into Walter a mistake (oh dear, I fear not many people will agree with me on this one, though!) - there was so much that could have been explored with Walter as Wanda which never was (we had the whole legal issue with his estate etc, but the emotional side of the character was never really picked up on - Walter seemed to accept being Wanda way too easily, there should have been more angst etc).

I agree, it was pretty bizzare, but at the same time... brilliant! It was a very different idea... As for his side of it... did you read Mako's fic?

Well after reading the first part of Mako's Northstar and Iceman slashy saga my doctor adviced me to avoid such reading matter for a while as it made my pulse rate increase to a dangerous degree Which story is this Wanda/Walter and where can I find it?

[SwiftFox]

Well after reading the first part of Mako's Northstar and Iceman slashy saga my doctor adviced me to avoid such reading matter for a while as it made my pulse rate increase to a dangerous degree Which story is this Wanda/Walter and where can I find it?

I'm sure you're doctor would approve of this story... I mean it's actually posted on the forum and all... it's set Vol 3, but it looks on Walt's Wanda time... it's actually very cute...

http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=267


[EDIT: OMG!! This post brought me up to Alpha rank!! Wooo!]

[beetleblack]

Well after reading the first part of Mako's Northstar and Iceman slashy saga my doctor adviced me to avoid such reading matter for a while as it made my pulse rate increase to a dangerous degree Which story is this Wanda/Walter and where can I find it?

I'm sure you're doctor would approve of this story... I mean it's actually posted on the forum and all... it's set Vol 3, but it looks on Walt's Wanda time... it's actually very cute...

http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=267


[EDIT: OMG!! This post brought me up to Alpha rank!! Wooo!]

Cool, I shall certainly check it out.

Oh and btw, welcome to the team Swifty

[kozzi24]

Mantlo "established" that Northstar was in love with Walter as of #29, when Aurora is on the couch crying over Walt's loss, and Northstar cries with her and Aurora says, "oh you too" and NS says "yes"

That was when I picked up on NS's sexuality. Alpha was my absolute favorite book at that time and through #50 (sinking like a stone thereafter Nicienza came on board.) I had read the series and related appearances several times before #29, (the only comic series I have read as many or more times in Marvel's Star Wars.)

I had questioned some of the remarks without picking up on their meaning. The scene in #29 only confirmed the theory I had built, mostly from #7's appearance of the rather froppish Raymond (and NS's surprise that he had a daughter), Heather's "Toffee-nosed" outburst (Northstar was no ass kisser, so what could THAT mean?) his surprise at Clementine's exuberant kiss, and Rogue's surprise "ALL his secrets" in the XM/AF LS.

The real problem I had with #29 is that I find it inconcevable that NS was in love with or even had a crush on Walter. By direct reference to the books, the spell in #24 would not have worked without someone who hated Langkowski, and if the Artificer wanted to merely divide AF's forces, demanding someone who hated the "prisoner" among his six RESCUERS in the remoteness would have stretched the odds beyond anything such an aged character would attempt unless he could sense one of them DID hate Langkowski.

As for my inferences: NS would certainly admire the body around to look at, but the personality factor would kill any "love." This explanation also fits with Northstar's remark to Wanda that he preferred her as the man she was.

NS was a pointy-eared, homosexually-inclined ORPHAN. He's a defensive and angry adult. Don't tell me he was anything but victim for class bullies growing up. Look at Langkowski: football player, wanting Hulk super-power enough to experiement on himself intentionally, and his ridicule of Puck in AF #1 as well as other examples. He is a CLASSIC bully. The artificer's statement that Langkowski could be saved only by one of great power, one who loved him and one who hated him was definitely truth, and makes sense on a primoral (sp) sense. If someone with power, hatred and love go to bat for a soul, then that sould has had enough consequence on others in life to be worthy of saving. Northstar hated him, and probably has the attitude, "Why are all the great looking ones *******s?!"

You can debate whether the remark of "but he's not a man" is right or fair, but I've reread the run enough times to recognize it as one of the first of many subtle hints about Northstar's arientation. At least that line from #1 is within context of the characters and had another meaning. Mantlo's treatment of the situation was at best bad, and at worst, mean.

[SwiftFox]

Heather's "Toffee-nosed" outburst (Northstar was no ass kisser, so what could THAT mean?)

It could mean what toffee-nosed means...

"toffee-nosed - snobbish; pretentiously superior "
"toffee-nosed
adjective UK INFORMAL DISAPPROVING
People who are toffee-nosed consider themselves to be better than other people, especially than people of a lower social class:
- He's a toffee-nosed git - take no notice of him!"

I have found no corelation between the term toffee-nosed and homosexuality. However the definition above CERTAINLY applies to Jean-Paul. Picking that line as a reference to homosexuality seems to over-searching/reading into things and is really a pretty nasty inferrence given what you put in brackets.