Northstar's Current Status

[jay042]

Austen made it out that Northstar is teaching for the money...perhaps one of the minor details that add up to make so many people say he's a horriible writer. He's teaching business, although teaching French might have made more sense, and recruiting Aurora as a teacher would have made the most sense. I think it gets down to Northstar being a token gay for Austen. I never used to understand whay so many people hated him, but my esteem for his work has been falling a lot lately.

His storytelling has been a source of a lot of the complaints more than anything. The Draco storyline in Uncanny riled a lot of fans by changing Nightcrawler's origin so drasticly (Kurt was originally the son of Mystique and some Austrian aristocrat) and by adding the whole demon aspect to the chracter, it negates the whole point of the character. He was pursuing his dream of becoming a priest, despite the prejudices due to his appearance. By making him part demon does that not validate those prejudices?

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

I disagree. The changing of Nightcrawler's origin wasn't that drastic a change, in my opinion. So his father went from an Austrian aristocrat to a demon posing as an Austrian aristocrat. It's plausible. And it doesn't negate the whole point of the character. In fact, I think it makes his struggle to find acceptance in the world and a place within the Church hierarchy that much more poignant. And no, making him part-demon doesn't validate the prejudices he faces any more than being a mutant does. The Church, from their perspective, rightly condemns mutants because mutants represent evolution, which they are adamantly opposed to. And we've all seen throughout the years that Kurt has a gentle, loving soul that is pretty much untainted by his demonic half. I think it's an excellent case of a character rising above obstacles (especially obstacles such as this, that he has absolutely no control over) and finding his place in a world that, yes, fears and hates him.

[kozzi24]

The Draco storyline was a mess, and, to me, a little boring. It could have been less convoluted by separating the Northstar/Juggernaut arc into a totally separate with the armored Alpha issues. I liked his stuff at first, but I'm liking it less and less. She lies with angels was a bit boring also, and too soapbox for my liking, I thought the whole "I-look-like-a-demon-so-I-must be-one-bit" in Draco too cliche. The Juggernaut-armor Alpha was horrendous, especially when we could have AND SHOULD HAVE had an issue-long Sasquatch/Jugs slugfest, and I don't even want to start on his Avengers. The bit with tyhe Wasp is just too far out for me. Add to that his Superman, which DC is "depowering" a bit to suit Austen, and my faith is lost, to the point I can only say gladd he's going off Avengers...and I am one who has liked everything in Averngers since Simnonson's destructive run.

[ladymako71]

Austin trashed X-men and now he's eyeballing JLA...the fans I know are cringing. I personally reckon he needs to be shot for giving the Northstar fans a carrot with Iceman and then forgetting about it....

[kozzi24]

I never thought he warranted some of the real harsh things out there on the web, but I also don't see where his prolonged favor with editors comes from. Maybe he's better at the ideas than the execution?

[ladymako71]

maybe, but I still don't think he has done any of the books he's been on any real justice.

[jay042]

Austen does seem to fall flat in his execution and his disregard for continuity. But then that's been a problem at Marvel ever since Quesada became Editor.

[Phil]

Just a note(not accusing or blaming anyone or anything, just trying to stop a trainwreck in the making);

Can we please keep all Austen comments to constructive criticism and complaints, rather than following the trend of every other message board and jumping into death threats and slander.

Same for all other creators; Feel free to slate their work if you can back it up with valid reasoning, but let's not make things personal.

[HappyCanuck]

Just a note(not accusing or blaming anyone or anything, just trying to stop a trainwreck in the making);

Can we please keep all Austen comments to constructive criticism and complaints, rather than following the trend of every other message board and jumping into death threats and slander.

Same for all other creators; Feel free to slate their work if you can back it up with valid reasoning, but let's not make things personal.

Or, as a suggestion, open a NEW thread, strictly for bashing. That way, if anyone WANTS to read the bashings, they can so choose to. We all have our problems with these writers/creators - primarily with Mantlo and Austen - and, honestly, this forum is the best place to let them out, so that we can figure out what we all DON'T like,a nd refute anything we don't agree with (is that not, after all, one of the purposes of this forum?)

However, I'm with Phil that, after awhile, it gets a bit tedious to see a non-related bashing strewn across threads.

[kozzi24]

Just a note(not accusing or blaming anyone or anything, just trying to stop a trainwreck in the making);

Can we please keep all Austen comments to constructive criticism and complaints, rather than following the trend of every other message board and jumping into death threats and slander.

Same for all other creators; Feel free to slate their work if you can back it up with valid reasoning, but let's not make things personal.

I think I've stayed pro/con on anything and have made no threats or nonsense, and generally do try to back up assertions with specific examples.

If I really wanted to get nasty, I'd bring up this week's Avengers. While I am no big fan of big names writing Avengers (with Byrne's WEST COAST run the sole exception since Roger Stern left the book) I'm greeting Bendis with enthusiasm just because Mr. Austen is leaving. As I said before, I think some of his concepts have been great, but the execution has been going downhill.

I am NOT in favor of any bashing threads.

[kozzi24]

He brought in Persuasion, a good character that provided Purple Man with further villainy. His failure with her was in having her be a mouthpiece for his apparent disdain of the original members innstead of fresh eyes that the vets could have been seen with.

He developed Heather well, but his basic form of characterization is to give people something to whine about:

ROM, whining about his lost humanity for 75 issues.

Hulk, whining about his lost humanity

Puck, I love Heather but I'm a dwarf

Manikin's powers were VERY original, something that was getting hard to do even back then.

He also tended to kill Alpha's adversaries like Earnest and Scrample, never a good move for a book's long-term cohesion.

He gave us Cloak and Dagger; the failing was to have this pair that work better as supporting characters maintain a monthly.

Sasquatch's resurrection as Wanda was masterful, and to me indicated that his Northstar bashing was indicative of a closet case uncomfortable with himself (as the worst basher usually are.) He could have explored a great dynamic if he wasn'ty so concerned with getting rig of the originals: Northstar, hating Langkowski's personality bbut missing having the beefy athlete around as eye candy (hey, that spell in #24 would NOT have worked if Northstar secretly loved Walt) with Walt's mind in Wanda's body still coveting Aurora.

Goblyn and Pathway were nifty creations. Pestilence was pretty good too.

And this is the man who gave us Micronauts. Anyone who thinks Mantlo was all bad but has an open enough mind to gain a better perspective NEEDS to read the entirety of the first run.

I don't think he did well with magickal characters, thus his failure to really write Snowbird, Talisman or Shaman.

Mantlo was hit or miss one a lot of things, and most of his Alpha run was a prolonged, unfortunate miss. But the man was a Marvel staple for 20 years, made his deadlines, and gave us some memorable stories and characters.

[Northstars Love]

Or, as a suggestion, open a NEW thread, strictly for bashing. That way, if anyone WANTS to read the bashings, they can so choose to. We all have our problems with these writers/creators - primarily with Mantlo and Austen - and, honestly, this forum is the best place to let them out, so that we can figure out what we all DON'T like,a nd refute anything we don't agree with (is that not, after all, one of the purposes of this forum?)

However, I'm with Phil that, after awhile, it gets a bit tedious to see a non-related bashing strewn across threads

Expressing your opinions on a creators ability to write is one thing but to open a thread just to bash creators invites not only serious problems to this and every board but gives the "go ahead and bash" to every troll that could sniff out this thread in a single heartbeat. Forums are a way to express your opinions sure but they need to be expressed in a way that is respectable to everyone.

As an administrator of a board my mods know what to look out for when it comes to trolls and bashing. I have a few things in place to deal with them quickly and very efficiently. I don't tolerate creator bashing on my board. And never will. All I ask is that when expressing your opinion openly in a forum that it is done with the knowledge that creators are human too.

Do they not deserve the same respect as everyone else?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Anyway....about Northstar's status....I hate that he's in some X-Men semi-limbo. He should be released for use in AF....his presense in the X-titles is not needed(not that he's even being used much or used well).

BTW...I also think he should be in a relationship, but it doesn't need to be shoved down anyone's throat...it could be mentioned and the person even shown, but it shouldn't be...."LOOK NORTHSTAR IS GAY, GAY, GAY AND HAS A BOYFRIEND...LOOK...LOOK SOME MORE....LOOK, NOW THEY'RE GETTING FRISKY!!!!! That would probably be how Austen would write it. Did anyone see what Austen wrote in the Avengers recently? With Captain America noticing Hawkeye had woman's panties hanging out of his belt(after doing the apparent nasty with the Wasp)?...Ugh!

Dana

[beetleblack]

I don't think Austen is really to blame for the whole Northstar/Iceman thing - the bigwigs at Marvel presumably told him to just quietly forget any sort of gay storyline he might have had planned for Northstar... which begs the question why they allowed him to bring Northstar - a gay character - into the family friendly atmosphere of X-Men in the first place.

And with regards to Wasp/Hawkeye - Kozzi has already mentioned this in the Other Comic forum, although I had no idea that it was so crass until you mentioned the knicker inccident... btw, wouldn't the Wasp's knickers be tiny????

[Phil]

And with regards to Wasp/Hawkeye - Kozzi has already mentioned this in the Other Comic forum, although I had no idea that it was so crass until you mentioned the knicker inccident... btw, wouldn't the Wasp's knickers be tiny????

I suppose at least they made the issue where mini-Pym erm... went pot holing in Janet an parental supervsiory recquired issue, I suppose...